Ashamed of being a WAMmer?

[driversoft]

I'm intrigued - it seems to me that the various people organising WAM meets (on both here and the UMD) are somewhat ashamed of their prediliction for the fetish. They back this up by suggesting a very conservative approach to any public meets, which, they say, would encourage those who (presumably like themselves), are somewhat reticent about their 'fetish', to turn up.

Now, I'd like a debate here - aren't we doing the WAM fetish a disservice by propogating the 'we're weird' approach? It seems to me that if someone new does feel like that, then they'd prefer to come down and meet others who are confident in their likes - when they find that even those who organise the meets lack the confidence to be honest about things, surely that's just perpetuating an inappropriate stereotype - unless it isn't a stereotype, of course....

Don't get me wrong - I'm not suggesting that we all hold WAM sessions in public (although some people might like to do that!) - but if those of us who have had and enjoyed this fetish for many years are still uncomfortable with even admitting that they like it in public, what hope have we got going forward??

[andy250]

Its never bothered me and never will, I film outdoors do gungings outdoors etc. 90% of my friends including my parents know excatly what I do.

Sharon who I have the hots for who lives up the road from me she knows about it as well.


If you hide in a cupboard you'll always be frightened.

regards

Andy

[driversoft]

Well, it seems I have some support!

I feel I should add, at this juncture, that this thread is NOT an attack on anybody - I'm grateful for the efforts the various organisers put in to our community. Nevertheless, I'm convinced we'd all be better off if we were prepared to admit what we like, rather than have to pretend it's our 'little secret'.

[TottyMcGee]

Hear hear.

When I stopped maked crap excuses and apologies and instead decided to just go ahead with having fun I made a crushing discovery - no-one actually cares. There I was all ready to proudly face the world, only to find the world couldn't give a monkey's; when I showed my parents my first WAM website they said their reaction was the same as if someone showed them their site about beekeeping - a topic that they had no particular interest in, but which wasn't any big deal either.

Don't run if you're not being chased; what people fear is scandal, which is itself fuelled by fear, creating a vicious cycle. I did far more damage trying to cover up my kinky side than I ever did just being honest about it (though I did go a bit far in the other direction at one point when it became a trainspotting-like obsession which my friends got sick of hearing about). With hindsight the various dodges and excuses I made served only to insult and alienate people who really couldn't have cared, but who did care about being lied to and being treated like idiots. If people don't know what you're up to but know you're hiding something that's turning you into an antisocial creep, they're left to speculate themselves on whatever it is you're hiding, and that's when the scandal builds.

On what fuelled this in the first place; the reason why munches are vanilla affairs is partly so newbies don't get the extra fear factor of being seen out with the cast of Preaching To The Perverted, partly to keep everything reigned in in case people get carried away in the public places munches are held in (the first BDSM munches took place in burger bars, where there were problems with people showing up in freaky fetish wear and performing mini-scenes in McDonalds), but this is at the discretion of individual munch organisers and is a matter of balance somewhere between having reasonable ground rules and putting on a boring event that no-one wants to go to.

When I first started going to the Leeds munch, for example, there was a big furore on the message boards about whether wearing collars was appropriate at munches; at the time collars happened to be a mainstream fashion item so every third passer-by had one on anyway, but the boo-hoo brigade failed to notice this in their eagerness to argue that the general public will make an instant connection between the wearing of a small fashion accessory and the secret life of the wearer (out of interest, how many of those here without BDSM scene experience know what a collar is for and what it signifies?).
Ultimately it's about compromise, on both sides. I did notice though, back during the collar wars, that the ones who were most vocal about wanting everyone else to do all the compromising were the ones who never showed up to clubs, munches, or anywhere that wasn't safely nestled in cyberspace - they were never satisfied no matter what, and all that was acheived in trying to please them was a lot of hot air which alienated people who just wanted to enjoy themselves and couldn't be doing with an overabundance of unnecessary rules.

Also at this time I was in the habit of wearing skirts in my male outfits and so wore them to munches as it was simply my street clothes at the time. Nobody complained. Maybe it's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission, or maybe "normal" is just whatever you happen to make it. But I never went in anything more extreme than I'd wear anywhere else in town, and had there been any discomfort expressed to me I would have respected that.

[messylaura]

yep totally agree
i also have CD to contend with too, but facing stuff head on with a big smile is better than hiding it,

During my mid teens i had some bad times, this sent me in a different direction with regaurds to the whole "getting married" course of life, so i never got caught in the situation where i got married before realising that my fetishes are important enough that they cant be swept under the carpet.
so i was able to explore and have a lot of fun and some heartbreaks with them
for alot of people they are still very much closeted about their fetishes when they are ready to marry, then they are stuck with the fear of revealing them and jack knifing their marrage etc

so yes i do understand why people are and cant reveal their secrets
but as i said i paid a high price for my freedom with that.

as regaurds to the fetish meets, and yes thats what they are because these forums are just that, fetish forums, i'm happy to talk and chat about wam etc, in public or what ever, i do or did love attending the meets, love meeting other wammers too,

the only thing that has been dissapointing this time around is the lack of understanding that my CDing is not just a fetish but, particularly at night, a regular and "normal" dress for me, it wasn't a case of me wanting to dress for this meet but just the fact that its what i will be wearing that night (tomorrow).

its also bizzare to hear people say to me , mostly in pm's that me being there as a tranny would risk them being found out as one too, WHY? if you aint the one in the dress then no one will know.

i suppose the thing that may have been overlooked or forgotten by a few people, including me is, exactly what the purpose of the umd meets is for,
if it was for a few "freinds" to get together just for drinks from the forum then yes i do accept that i dont fit into that turn up as Laura
but if its to meet other wammers for drinks and to talk about wam as well as other things then its some where i do belong, as i am a wammer, love to talk and share info and experiance of wam and most certainly do want to meet other wammers,
we should accept all walks of life in this type of meet, all wammers, and sometimes what they are doing that night / day may mean they have to come as "them everyday selves", i'm sure you wouldn't frown if i came straight from work in my scruffy boots and holed work jeans?

anyway, its been noted that in future i will only attend UMD meets as "Bobby"

but hey, wouldnt an everything goes meet be great?

[TottyMcGee]

its also bizzare to hear people say to me , mostly in pm's that me being there as a tranny would risk them being found out as one too, WHY? if you aint the one in the dress then no one will know.

This fits nicely with my own theory as to why people are nicer to me the more 'alternatively' I dress (apart from the fact that I look really shifty in a suit, which is why I could never get anyone to give me an office job); there are many people who would like to experiment with different images and lifestyles but who would not want the consequences in terms of loss of income, marital breakup, social stigma and so forth. As a result they're happy to have a friendly eccentric around willing to do those things for them because it makes life that little bit more interesting at no cost to them.

To put it another way, we do it so you don't have to (unless you want to, of course).

[messylaura]

I did notice though, back during the collar wars, that the ones who were most vocal about wanting everyone else to do all the compromising were the ones who never showed up to clubs, munches, or anywhere that wasn't safely nestled in cyberspace

yep i notice this too

[dirtydids]

Other than Chantelle who was into getting herself messy for years before i started doing her pictures, other girls i have done pictures of did not even know about this fetish until i approached them.

Yes i did know them but not intimateley and really had no idea of how they would react.
You know from looking at the pics posted on these forums how one has reacted, she loves it and wishes she had known about it for years, and she is now gradually getting some of her friends involved as well.

I think however for those who are for want of better words either ashamed or embarrassed to speak out or let others know about their fetish you have to think very carefully," What is a Fetish"?

I was once told many years ago by someone wiser than myself that probably 80% of people have some sort of a fetish and may never even realise it.

There are literally thousands of fella's who see a girl walking down the road maybe either in tall boots, leather clothing, short skirts, high heels and stockings you name it, they all look, sometimes turning round and looking more as she walks away, is it the girl herself they are looking at or what she is wearing? If it is the latter then could that be argued that whatever has taken their eye could withoout them even knowing it be their own personal fetish.

Now fella's together as we all know will talk about things like that together as a group but anything out of the ordinary they seem to keep in the closet.

I actually own and drive a Taxi for my living and believe me the things you cannot help but overhear from both males and females which they have participated in is mind boggling to say the least, and they must know i can hear everything spoken.

As Driversoft so correctly said why hush it all up like a little secret? and why without going back to arguements on another thread do like minded people get embarrassed when one of their own wishes to attend as their alto-ego or dressed in what some people would call Fetish wear?

There are many things nowadays that are freely spoken about in public which very few years ago were completely taboo, why on earth should we all huddle in corners of pubs and whisper about it. I honestly believe there are far more people out there than any of us can even imagine that share our fetish so why hide it?

Having said my 2p worth have fun at the meet, i am still in plaster and on crutches so wont be there

[Hayley]

I suppose I have done both.

Initially I kept quiet about by "other job" (Splosh!) and the pleasure I got from it cos it simply wasn't anyone else's business. Then as Splosh! got a higher profile Bill and I decided on a simple strategy in pubs etc namely that we would talk about it if anyone asked but not show off about it. That is roughly what has happened.

Now a lot of people know what we do, especially in the pub we go to (where the landlady kindly does trips to the Cash and Carry for us and puts up with them all thinking she is a model!) and we have no problems at all. It is treated as a laugh and no more. Bill gets the odd lech saying "I wish I had your job!" repeatedly and I get a lot of women asking "What does it FEEL like?" in a way that implies they are secretly dying to try it. Ironically, the only problems Bill had was BEFORE we talked about it. If you aren't open (and in this case it was purely cos Bill wasn't very sociable at the time) then rumours start and it was thought in some circles he was running a hard core porn business. THAT was a problem, but once people saw what we actually do, they we quite happy.

As for the dressing up thing, I agree with Miss Helen. When I have worn PVC etc in the pub, people seem to get a kick out of knowing somebody 'outrageous' enough to do it. However it does encourage others, and a few other middle aged women have got their rock chick gear out on a Sat night too so I feel a bit of a crusader! The result is that at weekends the pub has an "anything goes" feel which I like cos I am actually not 'outrageous' at all. I just like to let go and have fun in a friendly atmosphere.

To go back to Driversoft's original point, I am sorry that the UMD Meets (for want of a better name) have become a 'conservative' get-together. It smacks of only wanting the wammers that fit into their view of the subject rather than embracing its diversity. I'm afraid I don't agree with the idea that it might 'frighten off new people'. It might also encourage new people, especially as the meets are held in cities, nowhere near where anyone lives. And it might just liberate a few to relax and enjoy their preferences rather than feel screwed up about them.

So without starting that particular row up again, my view is straightforward. Be open about sploshing, but don't show off about it, and people will treat you fine.

Love
Hayley

[Phantom]

Hi Driversoft

If being into a wet and messy fetish is no big deal, nothing to be ashamed of then how about you get the ball rolling right now ... how about you tell the good people of the forum your full real name and place of work? Maybe post some photos of yourself too. After all, it's not like your fetish is anything weird or embarassing, right? There'd be no harm done if your boss / parents / neighbours knew of your unusual turn ons, would there?

I think it's wonderful that so many people who use the forum regularly feel so secure and confident about their fetish. I really envy those people. They're perfectly happy to go public and even make money from WAM.

The meeting organisers are just trying to spare a thought for those in the WAM community (and I believe there are hundreds if not thousands) who don't feel at all confident in revealing their secret.

For very shy people, just coming to the meetings is a really big step in itself. I bet there are people who agonise over whether or not to go ... 'What if someone recognises me', 'what if someone puts me on the spot ... singles me out', 'what if the meeting draws unwelcome attention from people who give me a hard time'.

Shy people aren't making a decision to be shy. They just ARE shy. Maybe with enough meetings, a shy person will feel more confident and secure about the fetish ... but as it can be a major first step for some, the meetings should try to take into account that not everyone wants to shout their secret from the rooftops.

Me? I'm about halfway between super shy and super confident. About 5 people in my life know about my fetish. If everyone else in my life suddenly found out, it wouldn't be the end of the world. But I choose to keep it a private secret. That's why I loved going to the meetings so much - a friendly chat with some people who feel just as I do, in a safe environment.

I fully understand the other viewpoint ... where it's coming from ... but I think it's wrong. For those that feel the need to dress and behave flamboyantly, I think the best solution would be an additional meeting - perhaps at Splosh Studios or Bill's wam-friendly local?

Phantom

[Hayley]

Nobody wants to drag up the UMD Meet debate AGAIN, so let's not, huh?

The question was whether people feel ashamed about sploshing and how to overcome that. You may not make a decision about being shy but you can make a decision to overcome your shyness, and that's what the thread is about - not yet another excuse for repeating the arguments you guys have been having for the last few weeks.

If we can't progress from that original argument then we'll have to ditch the thread, but I thought Miss Helen's and Laura's contributions were valid and moved the subject on rather than rehashing old ground.

Hayley

[squirtuk]

I agree with a lot of whats been said.

You will know from my previous post that I love knicker wetting. I know this is not everybodies thing, but I have comment that no one I have ever spoken to on the subject has ever said anyhting like "that's disgusting" and never spoken to me again.

There is a group of people I would not discuss my fetishes with, as it would serve to shatter the small amount of respect they hold for me anyway!

As years have gone by I feel a lot happier about being open about my fetishes, because of the lack of condemnation society offers for such things nowadays.

HOWEVER

I also have a theory that we like to think that we need to keep our fetishes a bit secret. I somehow think we can enjoy the extra thrill of doing something society might frown a bit at.

I love knicker wetting, female one piece bathing suits, and wet clothing. At the end of the month my partner and I have a private county cottage with an indoor pool booked up for a week. I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to leaping into the pool!

But I would hate it if it was the norm in society to pee in your clothes and then jump inot a swimming pool. there would be no forbiden pleasure in it!

Maybe, just maybe we need to be a little "embarresed" by our fetish. It adds to the fun!

[Phantom]

Sorry, Hayley

I misunderstood. Since Driversoft's original post at the top of the thread mentioned the meets 4 or 5 times, I thought this was a debate about shyness or flamboyancy at the meets.

If it's a debate about shame and wam, then my answer would have to be I feel shy about my fetish but not downright ashamed.

I also feel no wish to condemn or alienate anyone who feels shy about having this fetish. Telling them that they should get a grip on themselves and go public is more likely to have the opposite effect - cause them to retreat further into their shells.

Once again - I envy those lucky people who feel no embarassment about being into WAM. I bet a lot of shy wammers wish they too had such courage. That's the main reason I mentioned the meets at all - because the meets, if handled sensitively and with respect to those who feel nervous, could be the ideal stepping stone for shy people in the community to start gaining that courage themselves.

Phantom

[BillShipton]

I don't think Hayley is saying for one moment that shy people should be MADE to be more open about their love of sploshing. Purely that no harm will come if they do. On the contrary they may have a much better time.

Shyness can be overcome, if you want to, and it can be very rewarding. I speak as someone who spent a lifetime (well, 25 years) sitting in the corner of pubs either talking to a mate or reading but never joining in with conversations at the bar. In the last three years, I forced myself to be more open about myself and have had a great time ever since.

I am not doing a Self Help post here. I am just saying that being shy or ashamed of yourself is something that can be changed.

[Phantom]

Absolutely Bill - shyness can indeed be overcome.

I know this because I used to be very shy. With regards to my WAM fetish, I used to live in terror of being 'found out'. Nowadays, it's still secret from most people who know me, but it wouldn't destroy me if everyone found out.

Here on the Splosh forum and on the UMD, there are people from the whole spectrum .... from crippling shyness right up to public and proud.

Meeting other people with the same fetish in a non-threatening scenario could be just what many shy wammers need and hope for.

Phantom