Gungeslut - please read this (Re:Sept Meet-Up )

[Phantom]

Hi GS

I just want to say to you - well done on having the balls (flaps?) to say what's on your mind. I'm talking about the next meet-up being planned over on UMD. I'm not able to post there, being banned, but otherwise I would have leant you my support.

People seem to be on your case as if you're trying to enforce a dress code, like some kind of facist. It's ridiculous.

What Bobby/Laura fails to accept (or chooses to ignore) is that there are at least 5 or 6 people who feel uncomfortable with him showing up to the meetings in drag.

He posts on UMD saying "Does anyone have a problem with me in drag?" and if nobody is willing to put their hand up and say 'yes me' then he assumes that means everyone's into it.

They certainly aren't!

I know this because I've had people tell me direct. Bobby is a larger than life character. As such, he's very confident and very loud. He should be commended for not caring whether strangers in a pub have a good opinion of him or not. After all - fuck them. If they don't like it, that's their problem.

However - it IS a problem for some people attending the meet. A lot of attendees ... particularly newbies ... are already very nervous and hesitant about coming to the meets. This is a fetish they've kept secret for most of their lives. It's a big step to come to a public place and openly talk about their big secret. They don't have the confidence and devil-may-care attitude that Bobby has. What they'd like is to meet some like-minded people and have quiet conversation about something they've always hidden from others ... even their loved ones.

The last thing they want is some muscular bloke in a dress drawing uneccessary attention when they're already feeling incredibly shy and vulnerable ... and those same shy and unsure people are also too timid to post on UMD saying "Umm ...yes ... actually I feel uncomfortable about you coming in drag."

The organiser who PMed Bobby asking him not to come in a dress, is obviously asking him on behalf of others who are too timid to have a confrontation. I know bobby's been approached about this before, and chose to ignore the request that time (because nobody came forward and publically stated they were uncomfortable with it).

Gungeslut - your post is totally justified, well-worded and I admire you for it.

I fully respect Bobby's right to cross dress, but he should also respect other people's desire to have a quiet, comfortable evening and get to know other people who share their fetish.

Sorry if this post offends some people, but I feel that growing the WAM community by including as many new people as possible should be the most important consideration.

Phantom

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[Hayley]

Shouldn't you be sending this as a PM?

The views of UMD members have little to do with us here.

If somebody wants to start a thread on the subject here, fine, otherwise it's a private matter between you and GS.

Hayley

[driversoft]

Well Phantom, I disagree. As long as Bobby wears clothes that would be acceptable in public, then I see no problem here. It's a bit rich for fetishists to operate a code of intolerance against things that are perfectly acceptable in public - which seems to be what's happening here.

If we were proposing doing something outrageous at the pub meets, then you might have a point, but we're not - and for someone to say 'I love covering myself in custard, but can't stand even being in the company of someone who dresses differently' (and I notice those who allegedly think that way haven't revealed themselves yet) does smack of hypocrisy, doesn't it?

I understand where you're coming from, but if I was one of those who had kept WAM a secret all my life, I think I'd much prefer meeting people who felt they didn't need to operate that way, rather than people who felt secrecy was still necessary.

[DecadentDoll]

With all due respect to those concerned, I'm with Hayley.

a) you could praise GS for what you're pleased with in a PM
b) this is a bit of a heavy topic and even if a thread does start here, we'd be discussing someone who I don't even think is a member of the forum, and it isn't fair.

................However , it is an issue, and with so many of the forumers here being into crossdressing, maybe it's something they'd like to discuss.

I thought you could dress how you liked at these meets. Mercedes manages to titilate in her lovely PVC, im sure none of the guys complain about that, even though maybe other ladies who dress down for the *event* might feel put out a bit by it... (not that im saying anyone is, im just giving an example)


Note that I have not discussed the person in question here, because it's not in my place really to do so.

DD

[Hayley]

Since this subject has reared its head here too (I have just read the UMD thread by the way), can we at least make it a discussion rather than a flame war?

For those who haven't seen it, the thread is basically an argument about whether somebody should be allowed to attend the Sept Meet-Up in his drag persona.

I would welcome the subject of the discussion to join in as a member of our forum, but please everyone keep it light. If you want to get nasty go to the place that started it!

Hayley

[DecadentDoll]

I agree, I'll head over there if i want to talk about it. Although, in saying that I really don't want to. It is just a bit too heavy for my liking.

At ease, soldiers!

[BillShipton]

I have a question for Gunge Slut too.

How come she can spell really well on UMD but can't on our forum?

Only joking......

[Phantom]

Hi Hayley and everyone else,

My post isn't intended to start a flame war. It is a strong subject - sure, but it isn't meant to be some ignorant post to start trouble or offend.

Driversoft - I know that people who have a secret fetish should be understanding of anyone else who is considered 'different' by 'normal' people. I'm sure those people aren't prejudiced against Bobby for wanting to dress differently. They're more concerned with the unwanted attention it might draw to them when they're already feeling very on-edge.

The truth is that a lot of people who might consider attending their first ever public meeting are taking a massive leap of courage. There are almost certainly some who agonise over the decision to attend - "I'd love to go. Wouldn't it be great to meet other people who are like me? But what if I get hassled? What if I get recognised by someone who works with me?" etc.

I, myself, am about halfway between mega-shy newbie and super-confident Bobby. I mostly couldn't care less what other people think, but at the same time, I'd hate for all my family, colleagues and friends to suddenly learn my big secret. I just don't know what I'd do.

I organised the first of these London meetings, and I clearly remember how nervous I was the first time I walked into the Three Greyhounds. Who would be there? Would they be weird? Would there be some facist who had read my posts on UMD and decided to come and give me a hard time? It was very scary.

I think if Bobby coming along as a woman would make even one or two people cancel because they felt uncomfortable, then he should respect that and come dressed as a man. Not everyone has his boundless confidence.

Nobody's trying to lay down rules. Nobody's trying to say "Come as a guy, or don't come at all." They are courteously asking (on behalf of others too nervous to ask) "Would you be so kind as to come in man's clothes, for the sake of those who aren't so confident and sure about 'going public'?"

In one of Sploshman's mud meeting threads, he requested no nudity at mud meets - to show respect to those who just want to mudlark for fun and might be uncomfortable with nudity (to the point they would be put off attending). Was he out of order for asking that? Should people be allowed to come along naked? Should they be allowed to fuck in the mud if they want? Sploshman was just making a request that would ensure as many people as possible felt at ease as possible.

This isn't a problem with an easy solution, but I think the organiser who PMed Bobby had no mean-spirited intentions. They just sought to make a happy, comfortable and relaxed meeting for as many folk as possible.

Phantom

[BillShipton]

Going to the pub is certainly a "massive leap of courage" for me!

Actually no, it's a "massive amount of Courage" - usually about eight pints.

[DecadentDoll]

And How!

[andy250]

I just want to go to the pub to meet new friends and get drunk, and talk complete do, do all night.

Having done shows on and off for ten years, hold events etc, can completley understand people's points of few on an indivduals rights. It does take a lot of courage 'sorry bad pun their I know!!' to turn up to their first event, you are not alone though. The first time I met Bill and the people from the mag, I was more nervous than going on stage at a new club.

Thing is once I met everyone they all made me feel really welcome, evertime I now do one of these events or meets I have a blast. Please don't be nervous you will have a really good time.

regards

Andy
(Bill how long have you been on Courage for!!! you do know they only sell that on the coast, next thing you'll be drinking ''speckled hen'' now their a pint to blow your head off.)

[DecadentDoll]

old speckled hen! they're doing that on sale in my local. that and Bishops finger lol

[Smiley]

old speckled hen! they're doing that on sale in my local. that and Bishops finger lol

Are you a real ale fan then DD.

I must admit i don't mind the odd pint of London Pride, and hot nuts lol

[andy250]

Go on DD get some speckled hen down yer, I'm not a big bitter fan, so I've only had a couple. Your bravier than me


regards

Andy

[Jonny]

Doom Bar, there's a cetain irony when you drink about 12 pints of it.