Off-topic -- universal health care

[muckypup]

What does the actual bill do then?? (sorry if you already said I just can't see it at the mo).

The bill that was passed by Congress keeps intact all the for-profit insurance companies, health care providers and everything else we now have. Socialized medicine is a system where the government is actually in the health care business, and owns hospitals and clinics and employs medical personnel. We don't have that, the bill we passed isn't going to do that, and it was never even seriously considered doing that

...
Thanks

MB

[Boomer]

What does the actual bill do then?? (sorry if you already said I just can't see it at the mo).

The bill that was passed by Congress keeps intact all the for-profit insurance companies, health care providers and everything else we now have. Socialized medicine is a system where the government is actually in the health care business, and owns hospitals and clinics and employs medical personnel. We don't have that, the bill we passed isn't going to do that, and it was never even seriously considered doing that

...
Thanks

MB

Hi Mucky,

I didn't get into that. I was concerned my first post was a bit too long to begin with. It's hardly what anyone could call and eloquent solution.

The plan that was passed is really a combination of insurance reform, Medicare reform, the creation of private insurance exchanges that allow those without coverage from their employer to shop in a newly created marketplace, the creation of a special program covering those with pre-existing conditions, some cash from Health Insurance and Big Pharma companies to help offset drug costs and taxes, aimed mainly at the wealthy, the medical equipment industry and tanning salons (I know, truth is indeed stranger than fiction) Once the exchanges are up and operating--after 2014--it will mandate that people buy insurance. If you don't buy health insurance and it isn't provided by your employer, you can be fined for not having it. It will provide tax breaks to those people who are lower income that have to buy insurance themselves through the exchanges. It will also fine businesses with over 50 people for not offering insurance to their employees.

Really, here in the states, the people that don't have insurance are not the poorest people--government provides for them. It's those who work and don't get insurance provided by their employer, or those who work and have a pre-existing condition that allows insurance companies to refuse to insure them that are the first to be left out. The insurance reform will eventually prevent anyone with a pre-existing condition from getting refused, and it will prevent insurance companies from dropping those who get sick.

It also reforms medicare to cover a gap in senior citizen drug costs called the "donught hole" and it trims medicare payments to health care providers. There are also tax breaks to small businesses to help pay for buying health insurance for their workers and incentives to providers to keep costs controlled.

There are really two challenges with health care here in the States. One of is to provide coverage for as may people as possible. Right now, about 85% of all citizens in the US are covered. The problem is that when you project health care costs before this bill was signed out over the next 10 years, the number of uninsured would go up dramatically. In many cases, it would be because small business owners would be simply priced out of the market and unable to afford insurance for their employees. Once you're on your own here in the States looking for insurance it's very, very expensive. Those people would be working and unable to afford insurance in most cases.

The other issue is controlling costs. Actually enacting Socialized Medicine will do that, at the expense of the insurance industry and the health care provider industry as we know it. They would simply be wiped out if medicine were actually socialized. Even the enactment of a single payer system would finish a lot of health care insurance providers. This plan tries to keep the market in place, and control costs at the same time--something that has proven very tricky to do with other markets in the past.

I've skipped some provisions, and simplified where I thought I could, but that should give you some idea of what the program is about. My concern is that there are not enough cost controls in place, but I certainly don't think there are any easy answers out there that are being overlooked.

My greatest hope right now is not even that it works. My greatest hope is that the ignorance and fear perpetuated by Fox News, Rush, and Glenn Beck don't kill this before we see if it can even work. I don't think it will ever actually be completely repealed. The vast majority agrees that our system is broken, and it will be very, very messy trying to get the toothpaste back in the tube and actually overturn this. The ball is really in the Republican's court right now. We're moving past the place where wild stories will be enough to kill it

B

[Lizzie_Claymore]

.
Sorry - the LINK I posted the other day was down at the time due to extreme volume of traffic as everyone tried to read it!

Re: Murdoch's Fox News and right-wing 'mediatainment', the following might be of interest:
Murdoch admits manipulating news
Outfoxed: Murdoch's War on Journalism

This is why those of us who are passionate about impartial media are so worried about his war against the BBC which is required by the law which sets its charter to provide impartial reporting and programmes to suit all tastes and sectors of society. He's in league with politicians who are planning to dismantle the BBC, which would leave the field open to Sky to dominate us over here in the UK too. Very worrying!

[mr angry]

The moral of this is that Conservatives are crazies. Ignore them. I can't stand the British Tory party but the Republicans in the USA are just off the scale loonies who frankly scare the life out of me. They represent vested interests, greed and selfishness and put out lies and propaganda disguised as news to keep the herd in check.

[Candy Custard]

The moral of this is that Conservatives are crazies. Ignore them. I can't stand the British Tory party but the Republicans in the USA are just off the scale loonies who frankly scare the life out of me. They represent vested interests, greed and selfishness and put out lies and propaganda disguised as news to keep the herd in check.

Well said. They scare the life out of me too

[sweetnpied]

Boomer
Thanks for that explanation! You know, the health care system you describe already exists in Massachusetts. And I haven't heard anybody starting another Boston Tea Party over it. And, boy, did I NEVER envision this response to my initial query. Thanks for everyone's input. And as a female living in one of the most liberal states in the US, I still do often get worried about how retro this country can get in its thinking sometimes.
Christina

[Boomer]

Boomer
Thanks for that explanation! You know, the health care system you describe already exists in Massachusetts. And I haven't heard anybody starting another Boston Tea Party over it. And, boy, did I NEVER envision this response to my initial query. Thanks for everyone's input. And as a female living in one of the most liberal states in the US, I still do often get worried about how retro this country can get in its thinking sometimes.
Christina

Hi Sweeten,

You're more than welcome. I, too, was surprised to find this thread and very pleased with the depth of the discussion. It's a sad commentary on the state of political discourse in the States when we have a better discussion on this topic that is so important to so many Americans on a message board comprised mainly of those who don't live in the states.

You are absolutely correct in that what Congress passed is very much like the Massachusetts plan championed by Mitt Romney. The AP just released a story that covers that very thing. It will be fascinating to watch Romney try and get out from under this, or somehow walk it back.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5izYhdHhNfFOmxYz4pJ48SpKoSowgD9EMQSS80

And to be fair, it should be noted that I love the phrase "mediatainment," but I didn't coin it. I'm not sure who gets credit for its creation. I wish it was me.

Thanks

B

[frenchie]

Hi Sweetnpied

My thirty year old elder daughter and I both have life threatening diseases chronic diseases. My family and I have relied health service and could probable not have coped financially without it under the pre NHS system

My wife and I moved to France six years ago. .Last year I had to have a heart bypass and a new heart valve. Fortunately France has a reciprocal health agreement with Britain and the operation was free. It was also performed in France within a month of diagnosis, and I had four weeks convalescence which greatly aided my full recovery. We could not have afforded this at the time if we had to pay the cost ourselves

These services have many critics because they are not perfect, but I think almost everyone who is not extremely wealthy would be 100% in favour of them if the alternative the American alternative.

For a country that is so ostentatiously religious as America I am surprised that so many people are against a health care that would alleviate stress and suffering for so many millions of people.

We know it works.

Good luck

Frenchie

I think perhaps most of the arguments against health care in America are based on an unjustified fear that it is socialist or vested interests worried about loose of profits if the system is changed.

[sweetnpied]

What the conservatives insist are the problems with universal health care are: #1 you can't see the doctor you want, #2 you have to wait 6 months to get even emergency procedures (such as heart bypasses and new heart valves), #3 you get inferior services.

Sounds like all of you have shot those arguments to hell over the past several days. Maybe we should send Fox News the Splosh forum link? Thanks again for everyone's amazing input!

[messylaura]

the NHS is a very good system considering some alternitaves, i have been in hospital a few times, once with a life threatening condition, if i had of been in a country without nhs i'd hate to think what finacial situation i would be in, i would never make enough money to pay a huge bill

[Lizzie_Claymore]

Maybe we should send Fox News the Splosh forum link?

NO!!! We're exactly the kind of happy and harmless minority that Fox would run all sorts of appalling hate campaigns against. (Not that I expected you really meant that but ..... !)

[mr angry]

How do Fox compare with our own rabid, deranged right wing rant sheets, The Daily Mail and its pathetic wannabe rival The Daily Express?

[Lizzie_Claymore]

Watch the wonderful Charlie Brooker in pretty much any of his acerbic editions of "NewsWipe" where he looks at how TV news is created. (Probably got clips on YouTube.) He's outrageously hilarious but the clips from Fox are seriously deranged (which is what he's trying to draw attention to)! I'd say they're far worse than even The Daily Heil!!

[boxster]

Well, Mr Angry, Fox News is owned by News America that, in turn, owned by Rupert Murdock, you know, the fellow who wrecked the Times, the Wall Street Journal, New York Post, etc.

I simply can't think of the tabloids he owns in the UK, though.

[muckypup]

Something like this

Watch the wonderful Charlie Brooker in pretty much any of his acerbic editions of "NewsWipe" where he looks at how TV news is created. (Probably got clips on YouTube.) He's outrageously hilarious but the clips from Fox are seriously deranged (which is what he's trying to draw attention to)! I'd say they're far worse than even The Daily Heil!!