tonights fantasy !

[stonecastle]

but most of the posters here are saying that there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to flirting, dating and relationships.

Yes there are hard and fast rules when it comes to dating. Because getting a date with a stranger is so hard these tactics have been devised to make it a lot easier.

Because most women shun attention from men in public places one hard and fast rule is to pretend not to be interested in the woman during the first part of the interaction. A pua will do this by a very indirect approach. Only once he had established comfort and rapport will he tell the woman his true feelings for her.

There is of course the direct approach which has a low success rate but is often used when there is not enough time for an indirect lengthy pick up routine.

You are also wrong about men and women have been successfully flirting and dating throughout history. Most men have very few sexual partners in their lifetime. They have very limited choice in women. That has been the case for most men throughout history. Learning advanced pick up skills can greatly increase your choice in women.

[wamram]

They have very limited choice in women.

I had lots of choices in women, especially in the Brothels I used to go in in Germany when I was stationed there in the Army

[chelsea05]

Dude it's not about how many people you can 'nail' in a lifetime. How many billions of people are there in the world that are in secure, loving relationships?

Probably a lot more out there than the insecure con artists that you seem to hold in such high regard.

How can you say most men have had very few sexual partners?? Do you know how many men there are in Britain and their successes, never mind the world? C'mon man....

I'm by no means a stud but I haven't been unsuccessful with the fairer sex. I have no books, I haven't been to seminars and I don't need some guy taking £700 off me to tell me that honesty and humility work best for me and most of the guys I know.

I'm not trying to piss in your pool by any means but speaking as a mental health professional most of your arguements border on lunacy.

[zoegunge]

as a female Chelsea sounds sounds much more attractive than stoney!!!!

I really think that you need some advice from a female, rather than people out to make money. Yeah, maybe some tips do work, I read a book called 'how to make anyone fall in love with you', and used some tips to seduce a guy I really liked... eye contact is a useful tip BUT it can be easily be overdone.


You seem to have problems with socialising, experessing emotions and reading emotions and there are different ways of helping people with this... I have worked with many children who have similar difficulies.

[ralph]

Am I alone in thinking that this thread has just gone a tadge "off topic"?

This forum is great for accepting such a wide range of views from a fantastically diverse and interesting group of people. Each to their own, live and let live, peace and love etc. But can we please just get back to the messy stuff?

I wish Sandcastle, and everyone on this forum, all the best in finding the perfect match ... as long as they are all custard throwing funsters!!

[driversoft]

Yes, this thread has gone off topic, but it's still fascinating. Have a look at the Pick Up Artist website stonecastle is so impressed with, allegedly run by "Richard La Luna" (master PUA!) - http://www.puatraining.com - the whole thing is so obviously a scam.

Personal training with the man himself is yours for only £150 / hour - seminars are available (places severely limited, naturally), and all so you too can learn "The Secret"! Other master-trainers are cheaper (interesting franchise operation here), and even more worryingly, one of them is female!

What is it about the web that seems to give legitimacy to age-old scams and nonsense?

Oh - and just an amusing snippet from the pua site above:

"The big US names do not travel to London anymore for trainings (sic), and there are no globally famous UK PUAs, but this will change very soon" - Just for once, doesn't it feel good that here in the UK we're NOT very good at something???

PS Here's the PUA lexicon, just so us 'uninitiated' can appreciate it....

PUA: pick-up artist
MPUA: Master pick-up artist
HB: hot babe (with numbers 7-9)
SHB: super hot babe (9s & 10s)
set: group of girls (eg 2 set, 3 set)
mixed set: group containing men
AMOG: Alpha Male Of Group / Alpha Male Other Guy
Kino: touching
Opener: the first thing you say
Target: the girl in the set that you want
Direct/Indirect: showing interest straight away / coming in under the radar and only dialing it up once group are disarmed and target starts to give IOIs
IOI: Indicator of Interest (girl showing she likes you)
Sarging: going out specificially to game
Wingman: your partner in crime (useful for mixed sets and to occupy potential blocks)
Close: number, kiss, or full. n,k,f
day 2: a date following n-close

So, I guess if I find time for a spot of sarging with a compatible wingman, monitor the IOIs from the non AMOG groups, and brush up on my openers, then all the SHBs will come flocking (I can see why there's no money-back guarantee with these techniques...)

[zoegunge]

OMG driversoft, that website is sooo weird.

I agree, this thread is very interesting!! God, it does sound like a scam.

yes, maybe people do get laid after this crap, but that isn't to say they wouldn't have got laid before.

[Etonman]

Looking forward to checking that website later today, when I have a bit more time.
Just had an entertaining few minutes Googling for reviews of "The Knack", the film which Stonecastle says started the pick-up movement.
People's general opinion seems to be that, at best, it's a rather dated 1960's comedy (yes, a comedy), but there are some real gems:-

"Those who aren't "gettin' it" can't stop talking about it."
"Silly, hectic and boring farce about a few beatniks running around and talking weird rubbish all the time."
and one of the the best:
"Absolute rubbish, boring, pretentious and made me want to kick the tv, I'd rather kiss a rat with the bubonic plague than watch this film again".

[stonecastle]

the whole thing is so obviously a scam. Personal training with the man himself is yours for only £150 / hour.

If you read the book by Richard La Ruina you will find that he started of quite cheaply. Then increased his prices as he became well known as an authority on pick up.

Yes some people in the pick up scene are giving it a bad name by profiteering. If you want to learn pick up cheaply then the best way is to go onto a pick up forum like http://www.thelss.com and advertise for a wingman or two to join you on your woman hunting expeditions. You can learn a hell of a lot from other students of seduction.

It is a bit like those computer MCSE courses that were advertised when there were a shortage of IT proffesionals back in the late 1990s and early 2000s. They said things like get an MCSE certificate after one week of training costing 500 pounds. But you can learn the same stuff by reading books and practicing yourself. It is the same with seduction techniques you can learn it all quite cheaply with the help of friends.

[chelsea05]

"Women Hunting Expeditions"??? Outstanding!!

What do you do once your finished? Mount their head above the fireplace?

That type of terminology is quite scary.

Amazingly Zoe, Cedes, Hayley and Dolly, all attractive hot blooded females have said these approaches and techniques wouldn't work on them. Surely your audience has spoken....

[Etonman]

Stonehouse -

I'm not trying to mock or criticise you. How you spend your money and time is not my business, neither are your objectives.

But you seem to be indiscriminately defending these systems and websites (as if they are some religious cult), despite the comments put forward by the guys and (especially) the girls here, and you also seem to ignore any questions which go against your almost brain-washed acceptance of what these self-proclaimed "experts" say?

It seems that your only measure of success is the number of women ("super hot babes"? ) you can seduce?

Fair enough, if that's what you want, but most of us realise that bragging about this is a "man thing"...just like bragging that we have latest model of "GLSX Super 4-wheel-drive RXS+" car. Something which most people eventually grow out of?

I and my mates did our share of bragging about our successes, particular in student days...I think that we realised even then that a lot of it was exageration or wishful thinking!
Certainly none of my own modest successes with girls came from using any "systems"....they followed on, usually unplanned, from good days or nights together, in or out, sometimes a party/ club environment, often a few drinks (not "drunk"), just relaxed mutual good times.

Returning to these "systems"...you defend them, yet you admit they have not worked for you. You then take the blame for this failure by saying that you are "ugly"?
I doubt that this is really the case, few of us would make film stars, and I rate myself as very ordinary.

I really do think that you should step back and re-evaluate things, otherwise you are just going to be disappointed, whether you want a quick shag or a good relationship.

If nothing else, the money and time which you save from these "pick-up artists" might go towards good times, with a great partner, which you will both enjoy, whether that be clubbing, a classical concert...or even a bit of sploshing and an early night?

[driversoft]

"Amazingly Zoe, Cedes, Hayley and Dolly, all attractive hot blooded females have said these approaches and techniques wouldn't work on them. Surely your audience has spoken....

But in a year, and despite being a staunch advocate of LSS hunting techniques, with personal training from a master, stonecastle hasn't had an audience... surely that says all he needs to know - that it's all utter rubbish, propogated admittedly perhaps by a few who have some natural talent with relationships (well, 'relationships' of a sort I wouldn't want, at least), but that slavishly copying someone else will NEVER work, and can be detected a mile away.

[chelsea05]

Delusion- "A fixed, false belief that cannot be altered with reasoned arguement"

That'll be £500 please....

[zoegunge]

I've had a few boyfriends, not a huge number, but enough.
I met them on neutral ground, not by being chatted up in the street... one in a karate club, one in a waterpolo club and my partner doing voluntary work with sick children...

I think maybe you should consider joining some groups and making friends with girls and not considering them all as 'potentials', making themselves 'qualify' themselves

Also, looking at what some people have written they are bragging about having slept with 30 women and giving HB (hot birds) scores, and wondering why they weren't fucked at the end of the date. This is repulsive. I actually HATE men who talk in this way and go on about how many times they have got laid.

I am interested in the 'qualify'... how do you go about getting someone to qualify themselves?

[stonecastle]

zoegunge, despie what you say I am sure that you would fall for a pick up artist because pick up artists who have studied and practiced pick up techniques and know how to hook girls interest without appearing to be picking them up.

For example since joining the seduction community I have realised what I have been doing wrong all these years when I meet new women. I have been complimenting them on their looks and chatting them up by asking question after question. Plus failing to use touch to generate attraction.

A good pick up artist will not compliment a woman on her looks. He will not even compliment her at all until well into the interaction with her. He will also gently and quickly touch her at key emotional moments during the conversation but in a casual way while making hand and arm guestures.

Pick up isn't about sleeping with as many women as possible it is about having choice over women about being able to get the type of woman you want. It is about not being restricted to women in your social circle or at your workplace but being able to date any woman you see while out and about. If you have any questions you can visit the forum I post on and ask the guys themselves:
http://www.thelss.com