Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress
Posted: 25 Jan 2010, 12:24
Over the last week I have decided to start a project to build myself a real working Gungetank. The aim is to make something that is both satisfying in operation but also practical enough to clean and store.
This is very much a work in progress and though I have already bought some parts and made a start the aim of this thread is to share my findings and to seek advice and ideas from others.
I shall try and upload some photos when things get moving.
To business:
My feeling is that to a gungetank there are two main parts - The tank/cubicle/enclosure/area in which the gungee sits/stands and then the gunge storage/release mechanism above.
I have decided to start with the latter first as this the smaller part and is also more important to get right!
The first item on the list was then a suitable container or tank to build from. I started by considering a bucket but rejected this due to it's small size and weakness. After a lot of poking about and a trip to B&Q I decided that the tank should be square/rectangular as this would be easier to store when seperated, would allow for a reasonable capacity (Vs a round container) and would hopefully have reasonable strengh to it.
Toilet cisterns seemed to offer some potential and a whole cistern kit is cheap too - less than £20. Needs no introduction to how it'd operate but the draw back are that a toilet only flushes about 6-9 litres at a time and I feel that the valve would get blocked up too easily and it would all be hard to clean.
What I've ended up with is a small central heating expansion tank. It measures roughly 18" x 12" x 10" and cost about £20. The downside is that it came as a kit with a ball cock, valve, insulation and so on, but hey! It's got the capacity of two medium buckets which should do to start with. It also has a closed top and a removable lid which again helps it as a ridgid container.
Now this obstical is the big one - how should the gunge be released?!
One of the simplest methods would be to have a hole with a plug and a simple lever to pull it. This would work, but could easily be set off by accident and would be akward to reset.
I'm trying to be ambitious with this project and want some kind of automated release, ie. Electronic!
Now I'm sure most will certainly appreciate the logic - Buy using something that can be activated by either a button/switch, remote control or maybe a timer it opens up many posibilities that just don't work with any type of manual release.
My first idea was to use soleniod valves. These would be quite cheap and I thought would be easy to find... I was wrong.
After much research I have learned that some solenoid valves require a bit of pressure to exist in the plumbing for them to open (assuming that it's a valve that's specified as "normally closed"). This would not work in a gravity fed aplication like this. Suitable solenoid valves do exist, but then my next problem was powering them
I was apprehensive of using 240v out of the wall so was aiming for a 12v system. As well as safety this would also lower costs and would make for a more rich and varied number of wiring and activation options.
After a lot of research the best I could find was this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT
Now for what it is it's pretty good, but there are some problems, least of which the location.
This was the largest 12v solenoid valve I could find for reasonable money and after studying it's internals I quickly realised that it would be too small.
I considered the idea of using several of them in a group but then thought of the viscosity of the fluids used. With just water these would be perfect and if you had a cluster of say... Seven the spread would be good. Sadly good gunge would be too thick to follow at an acceptable rate and would probably block the vavles too easily meaning you'd have to strip them down to clean all the time - so no good!
I next cosidered a butterfly valve. An actuated butterfly valve with a 2" aperature would be perfect as it'd allow for a fast flow rate, it wouldn't get blocked up by anything that wasn't lumpy so you could use it with nice think nastrol and they are pretty simple so easy to clean too.
The downside is that a suitable one would cost around £200, and then require a bit of head scratching to mount it to anything. It'd also doubtfully be 12v.
A nice idea, but too bigger investment on something that'd be an arse to bolt up.
After more research I discovered (and settled on) motorised valves. These are used in central heating systems and come in different sizes, usually 22mm or 28mm.
Example: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOWER-ZONE-VALVE- ... 19b905c104
These vary in price and go for £30 each on ebay for cheapish ones. I however bought a 22mm one for £50 from my local plumbers merchant along with a bit of pipe and a load of conectors.
The valve works by having a motor slide a rubber ball inside the valve to open it when power it applied. When disconnected a spring closes the valve. There is obstruction but it's not as bad as I thought.
I have tested it with some water and the flow rate was very good. I then poured a bottle of HP sauce through it and though it wasn't that quick (like a fast drizzle) it was in my opinion acceptable.
So we're making progress.
The two main downsides are firstly it takes ages to open and closed - about 5 seconds either way. Not the end of the world though as once it's open it's open!
Secondly it is 240v. After much thought I have though decided to go for it. The units themselves are not sealed, but they would be out of harms way. The wiring could all be sealed and any controlling devices can happily be a safe distance from anything. I will also later include a circuit breaking for added safety. valves can easily be unbolted from the bottom of the tank to make cleaning and storage easier.
After experimenting with a 22mm valve it's obvious that a 28mm can only be better!! I'm also thinking that I should use more than one.
If I were to use say... five, I could have them set in a (:-:) pattern (like 5 dots on a dice) and though the flow rate wouldn't be overpowering, it'd be a lot more than a drizzle and would give good coverage. Only trouble is cost!
I'm thinking now I'll use a minimum of three and aim for five. I'd like to say seven but unless I can get a load of valves really cheap that's not happening! (Any plumbers here?!)
So far I've just tested the valve quickly and lined things up. I'm planning to take my 22mm valve back to the shop and change it for a 28mm.
So far this is as far as I've got. I've not started drilling or cutting anything yet as I want to be sure this is a good plan first.
Peoples comments and suggestions on the above are appreciated.
This is very much a work in progress and though I have already bought some parts and made a start the aim of this thread is to share my findings and to seek advice and ideas from others.
I shall try and upload some photos when things get moving.
To business:
My feeling is that to a gungetank there are two main parts - The tank/cubicle/enclosure/area in which the gungee sits/stands and then the gunge storage/release mechanism above.
I have decided to start with the latter first as this the smaller part and is also more important to get right!
The first item on the list was then a suitable container or tank to build from. I started by considering a bucket but rejected this due to it's small size and weakness. After a lot of poking about and a trip to B&Q I decided that the tank should be square/rectangular as this would be easier to store when seperated, would allow for a reasonable capacity (Vs a round container) and would hopefully have reasonable strengh to it.
Toilet cisterns seemed to offer some potential and a whole cistern kit is cheap too - less than £20. Needs no introduction to how it'd operate but the draw back are that a toilet only flushes about 6-9 litres at a time and I feel that the valve would get blocked up too easily and it would all be hard to clean.
What I've ended up with is a small central heating expansion tank. It measures roughly 18" x 12" x 10" and cost about £20. The downside is that it came as a kit with a ball cock, valve, insulation and so on, but hey! It's got the capacity of two medium buckets which should do to start with. It also has a closed top and a removable lid which again helps it as a ridgid container.
Now this obstical is the big one - how should the gunge be released?!
One of the simplest methods would be to have a hole with a plug and a simple lever to pull it. This would work, but could easily be set off by accident and would be akward to reset.
I'm trying to be ambitious with this project and want some kind of automated release, ie. Electronic!
Now I'm sure most will certainly appreciate the logic - Buy using something that can be activated by either a button/switch, remote control or maybe a timer it opens up many posibilities that just don't work with any type of manual release.
My first idea was to use soleniod valves. These would be quite cheap and I thought would be easy to find... I was wrong.
After much research I have learned that some solenoid valves require a bit of pressure to exist in the plumbing for them to open (assuming that it's a valve that's specified as "normally closed"). This would not work in a gravity fed aplication like this. Suitable solenoid valves do exist, but then my next problem was powering them
I was apprehensive of using 240v out of the wall so was aiming for a 12v system. As well as safety this would also lower costs and would make for a more rich and varied number of wiring and activation options.
After a lot of research the best I could find was this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT
Now for what it is it's pretty good, but there are some problems, least of which the location.
This was the largest 12v solenoid valve I could find for reasonable money and after studying it's internals I quickly realised that it would be too small.
I considered the idea of using several of them in a group but then thought of the viscosity of the fluids used. With just water these would be perfect and if you had a cluster of say... Seven the spread would be good. Sadly good gunge would be too thick to follow at an acceptable rate and would probably block the vavles too easily meaning you'd have to strip them down to clean all the time - so no good!
I next cosidered a butterfly valve. An actuated butterfly valve with a 2" aperature would be perfect as it'd allow for a fast flow rate, it wouldn't get blocked up by anything that wasn't lumpy so you could use it with nice think nastrol and they are pretty simple so easy to clean too.
The downside is that a suitable one would cost around £200, and then require a bit of head scratching to mount it to anything. It'd also doubtfully be 12v.
A nice idea, but too bigger investment on something that'd be an arse to bolt up.
After more research I discovered (and settled on) motorised valves. These are used in central heating systems and come in different sizes, usually 22mm or 28mm.
Example: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOWER-ZONE-VALVE- ... 19b905c104
These vary in price and go for £30 each on ebay for cheapish ones. I however bought a 22mm one for £50 from my local plumbers merchant along with a bit of pipe and a load of conectors.
The valve works by having a motor slide a rubber ball inside the valve to open it when power it applied. When disconnected a spring closes the valve. There is obstruction but it's not as bad as I thought.
I have tested it with some water and the flow rate was very good. I then poured a bottle of HP sauce through it and though it wasn't that quick (like a fast drizzle) it was in my opinion acceptable.
So we're making progress.
The two main downsides are firstly it takes ages to open and closed - about 5 seconds either way. Not the end of the world though as once it's open it's open!
Secondly it is 240v. After much thought I have though decided to go for it. The units themselves are not sealed, but they would be out of harms way. The wiring could all be sealed and any controlling devices can happily be a safe distance from anything. I will also later include a circuit breaking for added safety. valves can easily be unbolted from the bottom of the tank to make cleaning and storage easier.
After experimenting with a 22mm valve it's obvious that a 28mm can only be better!! I'm also thinking that I should use more than one.
If I were to use say... five, I could have them set in a (:-:) pattern (like 5 dots on a dice) and though the flow rate wouldn't be overpowering, it'd be a lot more than a drizzle and would give good coverage. Only trouble is cost!
I'm thinking now I'll use a minimum of three and aim for five. I'd like to say seven but unless I can get a load of valves really cheap that's not happening! (Any plumbers here?!)
So far I've just tested the valve quickly and lined things up. I'm planning to take my 22mm valve back to the shop and change it for a 28mm.
So far this is as far as I've got. I've not started drilling or cutting anything yet as I want to be sure this is a good plan first.
Peoples comments and suggestions on the above are appreciated.