Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Goo-it-yourself advice from our band of home sploshers on everything from making a good custard pie to building a gunge tank. A sort of Stickki-pedia!

Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Postby paperclips6 » 25 Jan 2010, 12:24

Over the last week I have decided to start a project to build myself a real working Gungetank. The aim is to make something that is both satisfying in operation but also practical enough to clean and store.
This is very much a work in progress and though I have already bought some parts and made a start the aim of this thread is to share my findings and to seek advice and ideas from others.
I shall try and upload some photos when things get moving.

To business:
My feeling is that to a gungetank there are two main parts - The tank/cubicle/enclosure/area in which the gungee sits/stands and then the gunge storage/release mechanism above.

I have decided to start with the latter first as this the smaller part and is also more important to get right!
The first item on the list was then a suitable container or tank to build from. I started by considering a bucket but rejected this due to it's small size and weakness. After a lot of poking about and a trip to B&Q I decided that the tank should be square/rectangular as this would be easier to store when seperated, would allow for a reasonable capacity (Vs a round container) and would hopefully have reasonable strengh to it.
Toilet cisterns seemed to offer some potential and a whole cistern kit is cheap too - less than £20. Needs no introduction to how it'd operate but the draw back are that a toilet only flushes about 6-9 litres at a time and I feel that the valve would get blocked up too easily and it would all be hard to clean.
What I've ended up with is a small central heating expansion tank. It measures roughly 18" x 12" x 10" and cost about £20. The downside is that it came as a kit with a ball cock, valve, insulation and so on, but hey! It's got the capacity of two medium buckets which should do to start with. It also has a closed top and a removable lid which again helps it as a ridgid container.

Now this obstical is the big one - how should the gunge be released?!

One of the simplest methods would be to have a hole with a plug and a simple lever to pull it. This would work, but could easily be set off by accident and would be akward to reset.
I'm trying to be ambitious with this project and want some kind of automated release, ie. Electronic!
Now I'm sure most will certainly appreciate the logic - Buy using something that can be activated by either a button/switch, remote control or maybe a timer it opens up many posibilities that just don't work with any type of manual release.

My first idea was to use soleniod valves. These would be quite cheap and I thought would be easy to find... I was wrong.
After much research I have learned that some solenoid valves require a bit of pressure to exist in the plumbing for them to open (assuming that it's a valve that's specified as "normally closed"). This would not work in a gravity fed aplication like this. Suitable solenoid valves do exist, but then my next problem was powering them
I was apprehensive of using 240v out of the wall so was aiming for a 12v system. As well as safety this would also lower costs and would make for a more rich and varied number of wiring and activation options.
After a lot of research the best I could find was this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

Now for what it is it's pretty good, but there are some problems, least of which the location.
This was the largest 12v solenoid valve I could find for reasonable money and after studying it's internals I quickly realised that it would be too small.
I considered the idea of using several of them in a group but then thought of the viscosity of the fluids used. With just water these would be perfect and if you had a cluster of say... Seven the spread would be good. Sadly good gunge would be too thick to follow at an acceptable rate and would probably block the vavles too easily meaning you'd have to strip them down to clean all the time - so no good!

I next cosidered a butterfly valve. An actuated butterfly valve with a 2" aperature would be perfect as it'd allow for a fast flow rate, it wouldn't get blocked up by anything that wasn't lumpy so you could use it with nice think nastrol and they are pretty simple so easy to clean too.
The downside is that a suitable one would cost around £200, and then require a bit of head scratching to mount it to anything. It'd also doubtfully be 12v.
A nice idea, but too bigger investment on something that'd be an arse to bolt up.

After more research I discovered (and settled on) motorised valves. These are used in central heating systems and come in different sizes, usually 22mm or 28mm.
Example: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOWER-ZONE-VALVE- ... 19b905c104
These vary in price and go for £30 each on ebay for cheapish ones. I however bought a 22mm one for £50 from my local plumbers merchant along with a bit of pipe and a load of conectors.
The valve works by having a motor slide a rubber ball inside the valve to open it when power it applied. When disconnected a spring closes the valve. There is obstruction but it's not as bad as I thought.
I have tested it with some water and the flow rate was very good. I then poured a bottle of HP sauce through it and though it wasn't that quick (like a fast drizzle) it was in my opinion acceptable.
So we're making progress.
The two main downsides are firstly it takes ages to open and closed - about 5 seconds either way. Not the end of the world though as once it's open it's open!
Secondly it is 240v. After much thought I have though decided to go for it. The units themselves are not sealed, but they would be out of harms way. The wiring could all be sealed and any controlling devices can happily be a safe distance from anything. I will also later include a circuit breaking for added safety. valves can easily be unbolted from the bottom of the tank to make cleaning and storage easier.

After experimenting with a 22mm valve it's obvious that a 28mm can only be better!! I'm also thinking that I should use more than one.
If I were to use say... five, I could have them set in a (:-:) pattern (like 5 dots on a dice) and though the flow rate wouldn't be overpowering, it'd be a lot more than a drizzle and would give good coverage. Only trouble is cost!
I'm thinking now I'll use a minimum of three and aim for five. I'd like to say seven but unless I can get a load of valves really cheap that's not happening! (Any plumbers here?!)
So far I've just tested the valve quickly and lined things up. I'm planning to take my 22mm valve back to the shop and change it for a 28mm.

So far this is as far as I've got. I've not started drilling or cutting anything yet as I want to be sure this is a good plan first.
Peoples comments and suggestions on the above are appreciated.
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Re: Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Postby LuvWetStockings » 25 Jan 2010, 15:20

:shock: :shock: :shock: I was lost at the solinoids!!! Have you taken into account the fact that the earth is slowing down and one day gravity may be less here like the moon!!! So if you're not finished by then I'd suggest a fan!!! :mrgreen: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Good on ya if it close to Devon i'd be up for giving it a go! LWS
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Re: Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Postby sweetnpied » 25 Jan 2010, 17:34

A gunge tank? OMG!!! And I thought putting together a week-long wamming session with over 10,000 ounces of chocolate sundae syrup, over 450 pounds of pudding and over 100 boxes of cake mix was impressive! But your own personal, private gunge tank!!! Way to go, paperclips! I can't wait to see the pics!
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Re: Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Postby sparx104 » 25 Jan 2010, 18:21

Ooh, always up for a bit of DIY engineering on the cheap.

Here's a plan for a simple (and very cheap) tank. I've built one before (it only dispensed water) and was manual but adding an electrical motor shouldn't be too difficult. To keep the ball in place either use a heavy one or attach a weight to the bottom with a short string - that'll provide a nice "spray" effect when the contents hit the weight instead of dropping straight down as well.

Sorry for the rather crappy MS paint drawing...

Image

Also, for the sake of making it very storable you could make a foldable frame which can be locked open and use a heavy plastic bag for the tank. Just glue the bottom of it to the frame's baseboard so you can mount any release mechanism. It can be made to fold almost flat.

I've just thought up a way to make the release electronic/automatic too, if you're interested then post back and I'll knock up another crappy drawing.

Good luck whatever you end up doing.
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Re: Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Postby SlimeShady » 25 Jan 2010, 20:24

Hi

I suggest pond valves. You can get plastic valves with a lever handle up to 4" (100mm) diameter. That lets the goo through far quicker.
Then, to open it... just use motorised solenoid actuators that operate car door central locking. About £5 each new and 12v - so perfectly safe in all the water/mess.
The easiest way is to mount the valve vertically (as you would anyway), and then fit a heavy weight to the end of the handle of the valve.
Simply hold the valve in the shut position with the actuator (or whatever you want to use - even a bit of string) and when you operate it, the weight does all the opening work.

Central heating valves jam VERY easily. The slightest bit of grit or stick goo and they will eventually get stuck open or closed. Certainly won't be able to run sticky stuff through it unless you flush it out again afterwards before letting it close.

The other easy 'valve' is a length of plastic pipe of anything up to 12" diameter. then simply block the pipe with a balloon connected to a reversable air pump.
If you infate the balloon until it fills the pipe - nothing gets past. Press the reverse button (or just release the air using a tap) and hey presto - instant huge gunge dump.

Hope that helps

Simples... :D
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Re: Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Postby the_dunker » 25 Jan 2010, 20:53

Something that might be worth thinkig about is whether or not you want a flat bottom on the tank or a slightly angled one (a bit like a funnel) to ensure more of the gunge comes out and to aid cleaning a little.
Splosh-a-Girl veteran - Honey B, Scarlett, Shay Hendrix, Tori and Jess West
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Re: Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Postby NINA » 26 Jan 2010, 12:12

sweetnpied wrote:A gunge tank? OMG!!! And I thought putting together a week-long wamming session with over 10,000 ounces of chocolate sundae syrup, over 450 pounds of pudding and over 100 boxes of cake mix was impressive! But your own personal, private gunge tank!!! Way to go, paperclips! I can't wait to see the pics!


I wish I could build my own gunge tank or have somewhere to put it if i did! Fantastic idea though
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Re: Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Postby SlimeShady » 26 Jan 2010, 16:21

For people who want a small gunge tank - use a rainwater hopper. They are plastic, designed to drain easily with a nice 75mm hole at the bottom. Hold quite a lot and cost <£20.
You can put 4 together and either have 4 outlets, or plumb them together using rainwater pipe connectors for a 4 different gunges into 1 gunge tank. :D
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Re: Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Postby sweetnpied » 27 Jan 2010, 02:18

SlimeShady wrote:Hi

I suggest pond valves. You can get plastic valves with a lever handle up to 4" (100mm) diameter. That lets the goo through far quicker.
Then, to open it... just use motorised solenoid actuators that operate car door central locking. About £5 each new and 12v - so perfectly safe in all the water/mess.
The easiest way is to mount the valve vertically (as you would anyway), and then fit a heavy weight to the end of the handle of the valve.
Simply hold the valve in the shut position with the actuator (or whatever you want to use - even a bit of string) and when you operate it, the weight does all the opening work.
Central heating valves jam VERY easily. The slightest bit of grit or stick goo and they will eventually get stuck open or closed. Certainly won't be able to run sticky stuff through it unless you flush it out again afterwards before letting it close.
The other easy 'valve' is a length of plastic pipe of anything up to 12" diameter. then simply block the pipe with a balloon connected to a reversable air pump.
If you infate the balloon until it fills the pipe - nothing gets past. Press the reverse button (or just release the air using a tap) and hey presto - instant huge gunge dump.

Holy shit! Who knew engineers were sploshers, too? I guess this fetish knows no boundaries! I, on the other hand, understood absolutely NONE of this. Give me a good inflatible pool and a lot of goo that settles within, some buckets and pitchers, and I'm ready!
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Re: Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Postby sweetnpied » 27 Jan 2010, 02:21

You, too, sparx!!! Diagrams and everything! Again, you might as well be speaking Japanese to me. LOL. The only word I recognized was "sake" which is one of my favorite drinks!
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Re: Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Postby subcdmaidpaula » 27 Jan 2010, 10:18

Ive already got a big mechanical gunge tank that holds 200 lts of gunge and it has its own catchment in the bottom and it is very easy to clean! i can have the gunge with a massive down pour or a multi way slower and more coveridge for the person in the tank!

I also put a seat in it out of a mini bus with a seat belt on - just for looks that is - but very effective

i use this for charity events - if your using your gunge tank in public you will need public liability insurance on it as i have and the tank cant have any loose parts on it that can fall on the gungee or anything which can cause harm! as if home made the tank will need to be inspected by a insurance assessor! -stupid i know but thats how it is!

Good luck with your biuld if i can help pm me.
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Re: Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Postby paperclips6 » 09 Feb 2010, 19:32

Hello to all - Just a note to say I've got a bit of an update coming.

After receiving a few ideas from people on this forum I have changed my plan to comething simpler and safer. Have also tested a mock up of this and will hopefully have some pics up later.

My next problem is that now my current choice of "water" tank isn't any good so need some suggestions. Looking for something that'll hold 20 - 30 litres, lightweight and possibly slopes to the bottom!!
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Re: Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Postby T-34 » 09 Feb 2010, 20:06

A water butt might do the job....

For me civil engineering > mechanical engineering, so my input might be of limited use. But remember that 20-30 litres of water/gunge/mud/rice krispies will be very heavy. Leaving out the boring bits about shear force and bending moments, suffice to say if your joinery skills aint too good then you might want to wear a hard hat before you sit under it :mrgreen:
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Re: Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress

Postby sparx104 » 09 Feb 2010, 20:27

Did a quick bit of research at B&Q earlier... You can buy the drain/'plughole' bit of a sink for about 8 quid. Stick that into the bottom of a plastic tank with a plug in it. Then just pull the plug out to release the contents, until then it should make a good seal - it's designed to hold water after all.

You could just add more to release the contents faster. I think bath drains are generally a larger bore than sink drains so that's also another option. For smaller ones look at caravan parts stores - caravan sinks usually have small drains else.

I agree with the weight issue. A volume of water 10cm x 10cm x 10cm (1 litre) weighs 1kg but with anything in the water it's heavier - gives you some idea of the weight from the volume tho (eg. a tank 1m x 1m x 50cm will contain half a metric tonne of water!) [I think that's right - been a while since school...]
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Re: Building a Gunge Tank - A work in progress UPDATED 10/02/10

Postby paperclips6 » 10 Feb 2010, 00:51

Ok; well as above I origionally planned to use motorised heating valves.
After some concideration about safety and reliabilty I have decided that was a really crap idea and have moved on.

Origionally I dismissed toilet parts as I only knew how an old fashoned toilet worked. After receiving some advice from someone here I have learned that a modern toilet works different and flushes simply by lifting a flap... And the release mechanism can be bought cheap!!!
I followed this up buy buying one to learn more.

It's working it simply a flap lifted by pulling a cable. The outlet hole is about 1 1/2".
The whole set up can be removed and cleaned easily too. The whole thing is plastic, so no metal parts to worry about either.

I set to the testing phase and drilled/cut a 40mm hole in the base of an old bucket and rigged it up over the kitchen sink with some water.
Again the operation was simple but good with an obviously high flow rate.
After this there was only one other thing to do - I had to test it with some gunge!!!

Thankfuly I had some special powder set aside for something like this and half hour later I found myself kneeling in my shower holding a modified bucket over my head, ready the press the "flush" button!!
It seemed odd, but the end result was very good!
Flow rate was of course slower, but still quite good with the gunge not splattering everywhere and giving good coverage.
Cleanup of the devce was easy too.

I later decided that three of these in one tank would be about bang on so I have two more in the post!!!

So far so good.

I mentioned above that I was worried about tanks.
Currently I have lined up a small central heating expansion tank. This has a flat base and so after "flushing" there will be a layer of gunge roughly 18" x 10" x 1" still left laying at the bottom unable to drain.
I'm considering laying something an inch thick at the bottom, but can't see this working - if it's not heavy it'll float and if it's fixed down it may make the tank hard to clean?!
Suggestions please.

the size of the tank may still be ok, but I will have to cut the top out I guess.

Moving on - Here comes the part I'm more excited about...
I have devized a brilliant self-release system!!
Basically I've found that a 12v car central locking motor is able to "pull the chain"! I've now ordered three of there (£3 each!), one for each cable.
This will not go straight to a battery though - I have started building a twin timing circuit. When activated it will time/wait for up to 60 seconds (adjustable), then activate for a set time (1 sec, 2, 3, 5, 10, etc.)
During this time it can either be stopped, reset, left to run OR manually over ridden by pressing a button!!

I have most of the parts ready and have got a nice tidy plastic case in the post to build it all into!
The latter part will sit at a distance and only the motors will be near the tank.
I'll probably be using a 12v remove control car battery to power it all.

The only part I'm stuck on is how the motors will connect to the "flush" cables... I want something that's quick/easy to release for quick cleanup after... Any suggestions?!

Last part - I keep promising photos but I can't find the lead for my camera! sorry!

Again feedback and sugestions are welcomed! If anyones proves helpful then maybe they can take a test ride when it's done!
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