The London meet result.

[dirtydids]

What do you think i was trying to start to do here, I was willing,
Did you not read it?
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:12 am Post subject:

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This time i must agree with Leon 100%. I was surprised as well Hayley locked the other thread as i believe it was getting constructive which is what we need.

It is a shame about the "ps" Hayley added regards the place at Charing Cross as that would have been worth looking into especially at it is not far from the West End and also has excellent travel connections, but thats life.

Another place inCamden Town has been mentioned that several members of this board appear to have personal knowledge of, however i personally have never even heard of it. From looking back on that thread it would appear it could get a bit noisy etc especially at weekends albiet there is complete acceptability regards non-vanilla dress. Can anybody give some more detailed info about this place and whether it could be considered?

Leon is correct as to having a private room, unless we found a very condescending landlord it is gonna cost money, which would have to be paid upfront at booking no doubt, as at any meetup no-one really knows who is going till the meet itself when people turn up. This could leave whoever is organising it out of pocket, plus would there be a willingness in the first place for people to contribute towards a private venue?

To organise a meet of a non-vanilla approach i am starting to think will be difficult to say the least, although i would love one to happen.

Bill and Hayley have in the past on these forums suggested that their own local pub is more than willing to hold this type of meet as it would sound to be quite an outrageous kinda pub anyway at times

If maybe Bill or Hayley were willing to ask the landlord if this type of meet could happen down there would anybody be willing to travel to sunny St. Leonards right down on the South Coast?

There are going to be loads of things to sort out so IF anybody is interested lets get some feedback and ideas, who would go? etc. I think we need to get some idea of possible numbers before anything else.

Right , thread now Open to suggestions etc. AND NO FLAMING OR BITCHING.

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But as i said several posts above i just cannot be arsed now, and Sotonude i could'nt agree with you more,

dids

[BillShipton]

Nothing would please me more than to delete this thread but when Hayley locked the last one everyone moaned. We shall see what happens. But if it gets nasty again, it's going...it's supposed to be fun here.

[andy250]

Having met 80% of the people posting on this thread, the other 20% I would like to meet next year.

I feel the situation is diverse, this is no diffrent from what happens when a community expands as new people join, matters arise and people air their views.

In several years time their could be three or four types of meets on the go. This will also have gone through a growing phase.

I Feel it is a positive thing that people feel confident enough on Splosh to talk about it. A postive debat.

As I say, I have a no you can contact myself on before the next meet, or if you wish to speak to me, pm and you can have the number whenever you want it.

regards

Andy

[Phantom]

Hi Andy

I'd certainly like to meet you at some point, as I like the style of your posts. I also think that it's a positive thing when people have the confidence to speak up on this forum and air their opinions.


"Nothing would please me more than to delete this thread"

Bill - Why the hurry to sweep this under the carpet? Sure it got heated, but that's not a bad thing. Sometimes people need to blow off steam in order to move forward.

With so many people acknowleding the different opinions on public meets and trying to find solutions that suit everyone, why dismiss this thread?? The bad bit is out of the way - we've all argued. Now let's take this opportunity to plan a range of meetings that suit everyone. In other words - bring the WAM comunity together.

Phantom



.

[Smiley]

Hello again, i did post over on the other topic.

I'm sorry to see the other topic got locked, i feel now is as good as time as any for everyone to voice their opinions about the meets on here, im only hoping this will not get locked again so we can finally get things resolved between us all.

I'm not going to rattle on because to be honest i thought by now most of us know how the meets are heading.

Heres how i see things
We will keep the original meet style going, now branded the Original London Meet. A vanilla theme in a public place.

Sure it needs some fine turning but remember it is only in it's second year to what will be a long term regular event. We all learn lessons from previous meets, for example on this occasion the new location did not suit our needs. People did not approach us etc. Trusting now we can at least lay this aspect to rest at least, and we will obviously try sorting out these errors for the next meet up.

Please - now we have concluded what the meet is about don't try to alter the style now this meet has been branded, cheers.

What is needed is an alternative to this meet, a anything goes meet - then there will be 2 meets and everyone is happy. ( Old ground i know but what has been done about it? )

Now we need someone to organize this, anyone up for it?.
Im more than happy to help get something going. The hot seat is waiting if anyone wants it. As ive said there is nothing wrong with an alternative.

As for a function room type thing, if anyone knows of very friendly pub landlords who will accom a gunge tank, and pies and drinking - lol, then please let me know. As discussed before function rooms cost money etc and we cant guarantee numbers - but im sure as time goes on an opportunity will arise, so im sure as a group we can keep working on it.

Last of all, cheer up everyone - try not to get to down about any of this, it's better we all get this resolved now so we can move on and get down to the real business of having fun. To be honest im glad this has come up.

Im sure no one holds personally grudges etc - and when someone types words, it's often taken differently to how it was intended.

So constructive talk at this point would be good.

Cheers
J

[DungeonMasterOne]

Some thoughts:

General: First, I'm not sure there's any need for dunk-tanks or pie-throwing space - the "non-vanilla" idea as I see it is simply to allow those of us who are naturally or stylistically more adventurous / alternative to come as ourselves, instead of trying to look like mainstream society people.

I'm inclined to think what's really needed is an "alternative-ish" pub, the sort of place that perhaps hosts rock nights in the evening and where the staff don't mind people in odd costumes coming in, but which is reasonably quiet during the day. Doesn't really need to be a private room (though outside of London you can often get those for free if you ask for a time when it's usually not in use), just somewhere that's a) easy to find, b) tolerant of alternative people, and c) reasonably quiet. I think if you start thinking about having actual wamming happening then it's gone beyond a meet and become a full-on WAM fetish event, which is a whole other bucket of custard!

Organising an "all shades of WAM" meet: If anyone wanted to do this in the North, I *might* be in a position to organise one in Leeds (or nearby) next Spring, depending on rather a lot of variables. Can't do at the moment though, rather overcomitted to photoshoots and social events through the winter.

The Devonshire Arms, Camden: Ok, someone asked about The Devonshire, Camden. Although I live 200 miles away this is a semi-regular haunt of mine, at least whenever I'm in London.

It's located on Kentish Town Road, two blocks up from Camden Town Underground Station (Northern Line), opposite the car park entrance to the Camden Sainsburys. Camden Town Station operates a "one-way" policy, you have to exit on the west side (Camden High Street, IIRC), so to get to Kentish Town Road you go left and "round the corner", the station occupying a trianguar plot between the two streets. Alternatively you can go right, up the main Camden street with all the traders, markets, tattoo parlours, "The Electric Ballroom", etc, and then turn right onto the second street you come to - the crossroads has a pub on either side, and the legendary alternative music shop/record label, "Resurrection Records", is just past the junction (i.e. turn before you reach it). If you go that way you'll pass what was once the TV-AM studios (with the giant eggs on top) on the left.

The Devonshire (or The Dev as it's mostly known) is London's official "Goth Scene Pub", as in it's run by real Goths for real Goths, rather than the touristy-Goth-themed "Eerie Pubs" closer to the centre. There is a dress code (Goth, of course) some of the time, though they are a bit more relaxed during the day. Anyone turning up in a shellsuit is unlikely to get in at any time though, and "trendy" gear would stick out in the same way full-on fetish gear would anywhere else. Crossdressing is generally OK, but it'd have to be Goth crossdressing - a bloke in a white skirt suit wouldn't fit in any more than a woman in the same outfit. Long black bondage skirts and mesh tops on the other hand would be fine.

To be honest, I'm not sure if the Dev would be the best place for a meet unless it was entirely composed of Goth / Alternative wammers (which isn't impossible - I know at least eight!). It's not a place I'd go wearing non-Goth gear - while I've been known to wear scarlet boilersuits or blue denim dungarees for photography and/or wamming, to me that's fetishwear, my work, casual, and clubbing clothes are all "dark alternative". During the day you'd get away with the biker / rocker look, but anything more mainstream than that is probably out. I know one lady who was almost turned away when she turned up in a pale purple summer dress.

Sorry about the long post!

[BillShipton]

I was devastated to hear about the demise of the pub off the Strand (the Marquis of Granby - no, not the Covent Garden one). That had a room - more a small bar than a function room - upstairs which was free. I held several meetings with editors up there (got a lot of work from that pub - thanks!). No, it would never have accommodated a gunge tank or pie throwing (not many will) but it would have made a good meeting place for any sort of meet from vanilla to chunky monkey with chocolate sauce on top. It did food too. But it has shut apparently. The Lyric, opp the Windmill Theatre used to have an upstairs room too (an old Paul Raymond haunt) again free but haven't been there for years. I THINK the Sam Smiths pub opposite Trafalger Square post office has an upstairs room too (called the Opera Bar??). Seem to remember seeing people coming down from up there.

These ideas are for any sort of meet, not necessarily outrageous ones.

[leonmoomin]

The dress code argument was a farce. A lot of us know that the dress code was never the real issue at hand, but nobody's got the balls to admit it.

Wanna bet!

I'm trying to find the right wording for it!
I believe its very healthy for what people perceive to be the REAL reason clarified!

The dress code is the issue, it was admitedly caused by something else! A lot of people falsely believe the original issue was one born out of prejudice, this is the issue that MUST be resolved!

There was NO predjudice involved in any of the decisions OR comments made by anyone!

NO ONE here has anything at all against CDs, oh believe me, I know exactly where I'm coming from on this one!

I grew up secretly hating myself as I'm sure everyone who grew up before the internet did! WAM is a very easy fetish to own up to once you can seperate it from CD! I, over time learnt to accept who I am and what i am, it was just as hard for me as it was for everyone else! I think younger people here may not grasp this so well in these times of mass information! But yeah, we all suffered and many of us still do!

I in my own way started as a producer to try to remove the boundaries, to try to make the whole fetish more classy, more acceptable! That is what is essentially at the heart of my work! So when i hear talk about real wammers and paysites just in it for the money it hurts me even more! In it for the money????

Jesus, look at what I've done, not what i have to do to recover the money spent on it!

It is MY way of coming to terms with who and what i am! Now some people express themselves in a very diferent way! That's cool, if it helps go for it! If your way is to walk the streets in a dress to see if people accept that or not fine, but, please do not push people into having to do the same or to be in a public place and by association have their own secrets put in danger!!!

Now good, Bill has been on TV in a dress and promoting wam to the masses! But PLEASE do not think anything less of people who do not share your form of expression, you have your's I have mine and others have theirs! It is just NOT FAIR!

Now if some people do not wish to be in a room with a guy in a dress, fine they don't have to go to the room! If people do not want to go to a room with a guy who is shouting at the top of his voice "are we wammers or what!", fine don't go to the room with that guy! If people do not want to take their girlfriends into a room with a creepy wam fan who asks far to envasive and purvey questions. then again don't go there!
If however lots of people who share one or all of these wishes want to meet, then they do not want a guy who does all of the above to be in the same room!

My reason is the last, I do not want to take my girlfriend to a meet and have her creeped out by one guy! I suspect the reasons others might have is one of the other two!

So yes, the dress code issue was brought about by another issue, that other issue is one person who seems to have managed to upset more than a few people!

He's a CD, so what, SO AM I, that isn't why we don't want him there!

It took me a very long time and a lot of pain to get to where i am now, so i completely understand how a lot of people feel! How hard is it for them to be faced with their darkest secret and worst fear all rolled into one bundle that will not get the message!

My final point being DO NOT EVER ACCUSE ME OR ANYONE ELSE OF PREDJUDICE! Believe me if you do then you are the ones without the full facts!

[BillShipton]

Just for the record, I have never been on TV in a dress in my life.

[BillShipton]

The point we are making is that this debate has already been had.

It has already been agreed that for the benefit of people who find it uncomfortable, meetings will be arranged that won't include any sort of outrageous dressing.

So please move on, everyone else has.

But thanks for giving us some insight into where you are coming from.

[leonmoomin]

See post below!

[leonmoomin]

It has already been agreed that for the benefit of people who find it uncomfortable, meetings will be arranged that won't include any sort of outrageous dressing.

So please move on, everyone else has.

With respect Bill, no it wasn't! I saw that thread that apparently dealt with it! It decended into an off topic farce, before the issue was actually resolved! The very fact that DD brought it up again here proves that!

Applogies about the on TV in a dress comment, but, I've definatly seen you in a dress somewhere? Perhaps it was just a big baggy t-shirt?

[BillShipton]

Many threads ago when this argument about dress codes first arose both here and UMD, the organisers agreed that in future different meetings would exist for different tastes (Easy As and James will tell me if I'm wrong here but I don't think so). Whether or not this is good or bad is irrelevant now because the decision has been made. Hence bringing up the debate again is old news as it has already been resolved. In other words, I think you have already got what you want!

Yes there are many pictures of me in frocks on fancy dress nights in the pub etc which Hayley or I have put up on here (and, I believe, UMD) in various jokey threads. Just never on television.

On this site, cross dressing either seriously or stupidly (as mine tends to be!) is actively encouraged and will continue to be. But contrary to popular belief we are NOT trying to undermine any decisions made by others about behaviour in public venues. That is entirely up to the people organising the event.

[andy250]

I must have admit as you all know every now and then for a giggle i will cd its good for a laugh, with me thats all it is, it can get way to heavy in my opion if you got too deep into it, or keep insiting on telling everybody you are a cd.

regards

Andy

[easy_as_]

Many threads ago when this argument about dress codes first arose both here and UMD, the organisers agreed that in future different meetings would exist for different tastes (Easy As and James will tell me if I'm wrong here but I don't think so). Whether or not this is good or bad is irrelevant now because the decision has been made. Hence bringing up the debate again is old news as it has already been resolved.

Well this is what I and James, nay everybody thought had happened.

However, until somebody actually posts up a time and a place on a thread to have The Alternative London Meet, this will rumble on like distant thunder.

In other words, I think you have already got what you want!

My syntax detector might be set to ' sensitive ' at the moment, but I am more inclined to term it as ' two options' rather than ' us and them ' .

It's not really a case of anyone getting what anyone wants. A compromise was sort through a request in a polite private exchange
in the very begining and was dismissed out of hand in a very volatile and public way on a forum.

On this site, cross dressing either seriously or stupidly (as mine tends to be!) is actively encouraged and will continue to be. But contrary to popular belief we are NOT trying to undermine any decisions made by others about behaviour in public venues. That is entirely up to the people organising the event.

No problem with CD/TV. No predjudice, I have no issues with any kind of fetish really. When it's not forced on me. Or others for that matter, as Andy has just said above.

I also accept you are not trying to undermine anyone who is trying, for the benefit of the Sploshers and Wammers, to organise any event one way or another.
The issue is clearly not entirely resolved though, hence the jokes not being fully taken in the intended spirit.

DD and then Leon have hit the nail on the head as far as I am concerned.
Without doubt this describes absolutely why we find ourselves here, now. Why didn't I bring it up ?
Because I am far too close to that particular incident to sound objective, nonetheless, it is the root cause.

Without the histrionics that surrounded the last big hoo-ha and a complete lack of acknowledgment on that persons part, we would still be one happy,
diverse, family and not a slightly fractious and fractured group.

For the sake of one person we are debating an issue that reasonable people had already resolved quickly. That is to say, have two meets.

That soloution had been offered nearly two months ago, prior to the September Meet, and has only very recently on this thread been taken seriously.
Maybe the horse wasn't quite dead after all, but we should all quit flogging it and let it die in peace.

I think was important for DD and Leon to bring this up to remind everyone how this all started. Then we can learn and move on.

So as James asked, who want's to organise the Alternative Meet ? And where ?


easy_as_