The London meet result.

[HaHaWam]

Thanks for the clip, Leon, very funny . Have you ever thought of writing a blog of your shoots? I'd be really interested to read what kind of reactions you get from people. I hope that the siren at the end wasn't the cops coming!

[leonmoomin]

PS Nobody has ever suggested anyone shoud be banned or posts removed. However, we retain the right to keep this a humourous forum and when a funny situation arises (and encouraging newcomers by dressing conventionally and then them not finding the meeting cos the members merged in too well IS funny) we shall continue to comment on it.

Funny for who? The organisers? The people it happened to?

OK, perhaps YOU find it funny? Fair enough!

We've reached an agreement here! Agreement is to arrange an open meet, and to stop the side swiping comments at the current organisers, I take it you don't agree with this?!

[leonmoomin]

Thanks for the clip, Leon, very funny . Have you ever thought of writing a blog of your shoots? I'd be really interested to read what kind of reactions you get from people. I hope that the siren at the end wasn't the cops coming!

I have thought about it and in fact did start one, but am really way to busy to keep it up!

http://www.myspace.com/leonmoomin

The siren at the end? Didn't notice it till you mentioned it! We have only had the cops turn up three times! Every time they have not moved us on, just asked what we're doing, then watched and taken pictures on their phones to show their mates! We even had two cops ask me to take a picture of them stood either side of Viv covered in mud on their phone! I wish I'd taken one on my camera now!

[DecadentDoll]

PS Nobody has ever suggested anyone shoud be banned or posts removed. However, we retain the right to keep this a humourous forum and when a funny situation arises (and encouraging newcomers by dressing conventionally and then them not finding the meeting cos the members merged in too well IS funny) we shall continue to comment on it.

Funny for who? The organisers? The people it happened to?

OK, perhaps YOU find it funny? Fair enough!

We've reached an agreement here! Agreement is to arrange an open meet, and to stop the side swiping comments at the current organisers, I take it you don't agree with this?!

I also find it funny. Im sure other people who don't want to contribute also find it funny. Afraid they'll be flamed or something i suppose...

Organisers... the people who post messages as regards this are all cool and that. Meet ups are a good idea.

But when i arrange a piss up in my local, i wouldn't call myself an organiser. I mean, it's lovely. it's a nice thing to do. It does encourage a lot of good things. But i'm sure they can take a little criticism. We're all grown ups. Well, i'm not really...

I've been away for a few days, ill as it happens, also busy with college work.

I know you mean well and everything and say it's all reaching a constructive stage of debate, but i for one think your replies have come across as quite intimidating wagging finger in the face type telling off.....

Or maybe i'm just paranoid. Hormonal. Both.

If anyone wants to come to Belfast i'll show you a good time. But I don't think i'll be travelling very much anymore. It costs too much for me. People in the past have been kind enough to offer assistance, but that isn't fair on them. Oh, and thank you to all concerned in that

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion at the end of the day. Im sure phantom or someone will jump in and inevitably make me feel like shit here, as i am rambling on....

fuck it. i'm off to drink til i can't feel feelings anymore. coming back to the forum so i can have a giggle and finding all this shit just isn't what i, or anyone else needs at all.

*mwah*

DD

p.s. let the flaming, or constructive criticism begin. or of course, to be clever you could just ignore me.

[stonecastle]

By the way as this forum is very small and not very busy I suppose that even ten is a good turnout for a meet. Maybe in the months to come this forum will get more and more busier and the meet ups will get bigger. I just wish this forum on this site had started several years ago.

[Phantom]

Hi DD

I won't jump in and make you feel shit. I (or anyone else, I'm sure) have no plan to make people feel shit.

It's such a shame that arguements have happened over the meets. Thankfully, it usually stays at the level of healthy, mature debate, moving towards solutions that make everyone happy. I mean - surely that's what everyone wants ... something for everyone and everyone joining in with the events that suit them most. The majority of people will attend both vanilla and non-vanilla meets. Some may choose to miss one or the other. But there's no need for us to divide into warring camps. It shouldn't be 'them' and 'us' ... not when we're dealing with something so daft as throwing custard pies!

I don't think Leon was waving a threatening finger in anyone's face ... Merely saying "hey c'mon you guys ... lay off the people who are trying their best to run the meets in a way that benefits the maximum number of people" .... there's no need for any "a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha you tried to do it your own way and you failed" scoffing.

The people who promote and organise the meets really are trying their best to put together something that brings people from the mess-loving community together. They don't profit from it. They don't try to make out they're anything special, and they aren't some exclusive clique.

If you invite other WAMmers over to Belfast for a meet, I hope it's a roaring success. Hopefully a good crowd would make the journey, in recognition of the big efforts you've made to attend get togethers on 'the mainland'. Good luck with it and good luck to you, DD.

Make cakes, not war.

Phantom



.

[easy_as_]

I have no objection whatsoever to constructive discussion of what to do about future meets. That was our aim in the first place.

As organiser and co-organiser of the London meets thus far, I feel I ought to comment.

Leon and others have hit the nail on the head. Not just in this thread, but in previous threads, time and time again.

It's a case of apples and oranges. You can't compare them so why try ? Just accept they are different, albeit they are both fruit.

PS Nobody has ever suggested anyone shoud be banned or posts removed. However, we retain the right to keep this a humourous forum and when a funny situation arises

Rightly so . . . . no qualms here . . . . wait for it . . . .

(and encouraging newcomers by dressing conventionally and then them not finding the meeting cos the members merged in too well IS funny) we shall continue to comment on it.

Ok, this is where the qualms come home to roost.

1 ) Yes, it does feel like a jibe, a snipe, a sneer, a swipe, sarcasm and a slight when the dress code issue is commented on like this.
It feels like there is an agenda behind it all [ the humour ] to read barbs like that at every oppotunity.

If Bill or Hayley OR anyone has an issue then have it out in the open with a dedicated thread.
To continually generate these remarks is very much like a " guerilla " tactic, or in English, " little war " . Not enough to bite back on without the aggressor claiming over reaction on the defenders part. A clever thing to do, that.

In itself maybe it is an attempt at humour that missed it's mark and even offended, but it won't be the first time these remarks have been picked up.
So while you reserve the right to make these so called amusements, it must be clear that by doing so you are really only picking at a barely healed wound.

Thirdly, it only encourages others to jump on the yah-boo politics bandwagon that inevitably swamp this issue.
This is not a school playground. So, the ' Bully Me Softly ' approach can be dropped.


2) The other point I think important here, is that Bill has been to quite a few meets and always appeared to enjoy himself.
In turn I can wholeheartedly say we have ALL enjoyed his compnay. Bill knows me and James. So why keep trying to change what we are doing ? Especially when alternatives are offered ?
I feel it is a little dis-respectful to me and James to constantly carp on about dress-code in such a manner, when the issue is something that still needs resolving.


3) So, what exactly is funny ?
Normal dressed people asking people to dress normally for a normal drink and in a busy Saturday afternoon / pub . . . . they miss each other !!!!!!!!

I get the joke, that if only everyone knew how outrageous and zany we really were . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . I'll bet everyone in that pub had a zany and outrageous story to tell, sexually or otherwise, but they don't need to wear it about their person.

Here is also a funny scenario . . . . .
Flamboyantly dressed people gather in a busy Saturday afternoon/evening pub, for a normal drink with the occasional loud and outrageous banter about custard
and pies and gunge a-trickilng and a-tickling goodness knows where, with strange looks a-plenty from other punters.

In walk Billy Nervous and Janey First-Time, both in smart / casual attire.
Both want to join in but feel excluded because they are not extrovert enough.
They also feel perhaps a little flush of embarrassment at the incongruity of the gathering. They have half a pint at a different table and slip away quietly, wondering if they had wasted their time, not feeling at all part of the gang.
" We'll just lurk on the forums instead " they say as they leave.



So, the point is people can be nervous enough without all the paraphanelia, some new people did find us there, some didn't.
This will happen from time to time sadly, but Andy appears to have come up with a soloution.

One comment that comes back time and time again from new attendees is that

" How nice it is you are all normal people, I expected it to be full of wierdos . . . "

Well that is the gist of it, if not the actual direct quotes.

That to me is more inclusive, not the other way around. Catering for a small number of people who want to do that is fine, in a private space it could even be a large number of people.

But one thing I can assure everyone who wants to gripe is that one thing from this is certain,
. . . new people WILL be and probably HAVE been put off from coming because of all this idiotic bickering and feeling excluded. Do any of us in the WAM community feel this is helpful ?

It is sad because no-one who has been to a meet disliked it or it's format, there has been a lot of effort made and success and enjoyment gained from these events.

Do not let it get ripped apart because of a stupid issue like this.

As Morrissey sang:-
" Love Peace and Harmony . . . . very nice, very nice, very nice, very nice "


easy_as_

[easy_as_]

Organisers... the people who post messages as regards this are all cool and that. Meet ups are a good idea.

But when i arrange a piss up in my local, i wouldn't call myself an organiser. I mean, it's lovely. it's a nice thing to do. It does encourage a lot of good things. But i'm sure they can take a little criticism. We're all grown ups.

Hey DD,

I take your point I'm not one to have delusions of granduer here, but I don't think calling myself or James or anyone, not forgetting Phantom of course, and organiser is too high-falluting.

In a bunch of relative strangers on a forum being called
" The Bloke Who Says When And What Pub We Will Be IN For A Beer If You Are Free And Fancy It " or TBWSWAWPWWIFABIYAFAFI for short is going to clarify things !
As mates in a local group who know each other well, yes being called The Organiser is a little crappy and especially if you are in the habit of reminding your mates you are The Organiser . . .


As regard to taking criticism, yes, I am a big boy now and I can take criticism, but I do not like the tone behind the comments, given the undercurrent there is at the moment.

As always I like to hear what you have to say and I know you were not having a pop at so called organisers.

The trouble appears to be that there are no takers for the alternative that is being offered. Which is very strange.

The gauntlett has been thrown down and yet no-one is picking up the baton and running with it . How frustrating is that ?

easy_as_

[DecadentDoll]

Hi DD

I won't jump in and make you feel shit. I (or anyone else, I'm sure) have no plan to make people feel shit.

It's such a shame that arguements have happened over the meets. Thankfully, it usually stays at the level of healthy, mature debate, moving towards solutions that make everyone happy. I mean - surely that's what everyone wants ... something for everyone and everyone joining in with the events that suit them most. The majority of people will attend both vanilla and non-vanilla meets. Some may choose to miss one or the other. But there's no need for us to divide into warring camps. It shouldn't be 'them' and 'us' ... not when we're dealing with something so daft as throwing custard pies!

I don't think Leon was waving a threatening finger in anyone's face ... Merely saying "hey c'mon you guys ... lay off the people who are trying their best to run the meets in a way that benefits the maximum number of people" .... there's no need for any "a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha you tried to do it your own way and you failed" scoffing.

The people who promote and organise the meets really are trying their best to put together something that brings people from the mess-loving community together. They don't profit from it. They don't try to make out they're anything special, and they aren't some exclusive clique.

If you invite other WAMmers over to Belfast for a meet, I hope it's a roaring success. Hopefully a good crowd would make the journey, in recognition of the big efforts you've made to attend get togethers on 'the mainland'. Good luck with it and good luck to you, DD.

Make cakes, not war.

Phantom
.

I had a big reply typed out, then deleted it. Then did it again.

I guess i'm disheartened by all the bullshit.

I won't organise a meet here. There would be no point. I mean, if anyone is coming here for something, pm me and we can go for a pint. or 5.

I really just want to let rip. All the well thought out diplomatic responses piss me off... you're all afraid to have a fight that you're already having...it's just a fight in a debate's clothing...

the wam community is quite cliquey, nobody can deny it. The meet i went to was friendly, not at all cliquey. im sure the rest have been too.

The dress code argument was a farce. A lot of us know that the dress code was never the real issue at hand, but nobody's got the balls to admit it.


There i go, getting sucked in again.

Thanks for the good luck wishes, apologies, but to me it seems patronising. But I'm sure that wasn't the intention at all.

but then i am ill right now, stressed out and paranoid. Just not on top form at all.

Maybe i should just piss off lol

DD

[DecadentDoll]

Organisers... the people who post messages as regards this are all cool and that. Meet ups are a good idea.

But when i arrange a piss up in my local, i wouldn't call myself an organiser. I mean, it's lovely. it's a nice thing to do. It does encourage a lot of good things. But i'm sure they can take a little criticism. We're all grown ups.

Hey DD,

I take your point I'm not one to have delusions of granduer here, but I don't think calling myself or James or anyone, not forgetting Phantom of course, and organiser is too high-falluting.

In a bunch of relative strangers on a forum being called
" The Bloke Who Says When And What Pub We Will Be IN For A Beer If You Are Free And Fancy It " or TBWSWAWPWWIFABIYAFAFI for short is going to clarify things !
As mates in a local group who know each other well, yes being called The Organiser is a little crappy and especially if you are in the habit of reminding your mates you are The Organiser . . .


As regard to taking criticism, yes, I am a big boy now and I can take criticism, but I do not like the tone behind the comments, given the undercurrent there is at the moment.

As always I like to hear what you have to say and I know you were not having a pop at so called organisers.

The trouble appears to be that there are no takers for the alternative that is being offered. Which is very strange.

[b]The gauntlett has been thrown down and yet no-one is picking up the baton and running with it . How frustrating is that ?[/]

easy_as_

*screams internally*

*chases tail, much like a puppy*

*goes round and round and round*

Y'know what.... I just don't care anymore.... good luck everyone.

I shouldn't get involved in these discussions. Just fuckin...everybody have their meets, rave about them, complain about them, try and make them better.... lick and/or kick eachothers asses. Come in binliners, pedal pushers, cardigans, anoraks, catsuits, high heels or plimsoles.

Im just gonna stay out of it in future, with all due respect. I'm too sick to be getting involved in something that just gets me way too upset to even look at the forums.

Maybe I'll change my mind.

I know one thing though...anything other than a friendly funny post... i dont wanna know. Not right now.

Sorry guys.

Doll.

[dirtydids]

Well
Thanks a lot, I now feel the same as DD, what a sad world when someone cant see or take a joke.

I specifically said NO FLAMING u lot must be blind or stupid.

I dont give a fuck anymore and want nothing more to do with this thread and hope Bill or Hayley shut this down as well

CONSTRUCTIVE!!!! I think some of you should read the dictionary

[easy_as_]

Well
Thanks a lot, I now feel the same as DD, what a sad world when someone cant see or take a joke.

I specifically said NO FLAMING u lot must be blind or stupid.

I dont give a fuck anymore and want nothing more to do with this thread and hope Bill or Hayley shut this down as well

CONSTRUCTIVE!!!! I think some of you should read the dictionary

Without wanting to enrage or suchlike, at which point is there a flame ?
Maybe I missed it for which I apologise.
I thought this thread was being constructive. However certain point's can't go un-answered. As regard antthing I wrote in my lenthy reply is pretty much my first and last post on the subject.

A genuine question from someone who is genuinely upset at this problem. There has been an alternative offered, and yet the same debate rages ?

easy_as_

[BillShipton]

It strikes me that once the point-by-point posts start, threads like this get analysed to death with people reading things into posts that were never there in the first place. So I am not going to do that. Besides like DD, it gives what is a very minor disagreement an importance it doesn't deserve.

I will however say a few things in my defence.

1) I am fully in favour of meets. I came to the early ones and we have encouraged them on the forum and elsewhere ever since.

2) We have not criticised the dress code 'at every opportunity'. During the height of the initial argument, we stated a viewpoint (once) then left everyone else to get on with it. Since then we have made precisely three jokey comments about it, all of which were very tame (in my opinion) and one was removed when it became obvious that although we thought it was mild the people concerned didn't. Since there has been a thread running almost continuously since the forum started about meets, I think three jokes scarcely constitutes "continual sniping" etc.

3) The last post was a light-hearted way of introducing the question of how we avoid the problems you had of recognition as well as pointing out the irony of the situation. OK you don't find it funny. As we have established from various threads on comedy shows, we all have different ideas of that. God knows there are plenty of things on the forum that others have written that are supposed to be hilarious and frankly pass me by - or upset us - but we don't immediately take offence and send angry posts in reply . Anyway, I thought it had already been agreed that there were going to be separate meets so at no point was it intended to re-open that debate (you guys did that!). It was purely to ask the question how does a crowd fit in with the surroundings yet make itself noticeable? OK we did this in a way we thought was funny. You didn't. End of.

4) We have absolutely no gripe with the way Easy As or James are running the events (again, you invented that concept) . At no time have we ever suggested anything of the sort. There is certainly no bullying by us. Frankly looking at this thread and the other for the first time today, it is Hayley who is being bullied. And well done you have upset her a lot. Hope you're happy, guys.

5) This is meant to be a light hearted and slightly irreverent forum. As such everyone is entitled to make jokes about whatever they like. BUT if people feel they are a casualty of a constant bombardment then obviously it has to stop - whosoever fault it may be. Hayley tried to do that by closing the other thread so that a serious discussion could start here. It didn't work cos everyone just kicked off again. Can we do it now instead?

In short, I shall ask you to stop beating yourselves up about a disagreement that doesn't even exist. It has already been agreed that you want a vanilla/ non-vanilla split and obviously we go along with that so what the hell are you all getting at us for? On second thoughts, don't answer that...for once don't leap to the keyboard to prolong a debate that isn't being debated any more. Draw a line and get on with the business of what you want to happen in the future and we shall try and refrain from making funny comments about those who clearly don't like them.

Oh shit, I said I wouldn't do the numbered point thing and I have. Now look what you made me do.

Bill

[easy_as_]

It strikes me that once the point-by-point posts start, threads like this get analysed to death with people reading things into posts that were never there in the first place. So I am not going to do that. Besides like DD, it gives what is a very minor disagreement an importance it doesn't deserve.

I will however say a few things in my defence.

1) I am fully in favour of meets. I came to the early ones and we have encouraged them on the forum and elsewhere ever since.

2) We have not criticised the dress code 'at every opportunity'. During the height of the initial argument, we stated a viewpoint (once) then left everyone else to get on with it. Since then we have made precisely three jokey comments about it, all of which were very tame (in my opinion) and one was removed when it became obvious that although we thought it was mild the people concerned didn't. Since there has been a thread running almost continuously since the forum started about meets, I think three jokes scarcely constitutes "continual sniping" etc.

3) The last post was a light-hearted way of introducing the question of how we avoid the problems you had of recognition as well as pointing out the irony of the situation. OK you don't find it funny. As we have established from various threads on comedy shows, we all have different ideas of that. God knows there are plenty of things on the forum that others have written that are supposed to be hilarious and frankly pass me by - or upset us - but we don't immediately take offence and send angry posts in reply . Anyway, I thought it had already been agreed that there were going to be separate meets so at no point was it intended to re-open that debate (you guys did that!). It was purely to ask the question how does a crowd fit in with the surroundings yet make itself noticeable? OK we did this in a way we thought was funny. You didn't. End of.

4) We have absolutely no gripe with the way Easy As or James are running the events (again, you invented that concept) . At no time have we ever suggested anything of the sort. There is certainly no bullying by us. Frankly looking at this thread and the other for the first time today, it is Hayley who is being bullied. And well done you have upset her a lot. Hope you're happy, guys.

5) This is meant to be a light hearted and slightly irreverent forum. As such everyone is entitled to make jokes about whatever they like. BUT if people feel they are a casualty of a constant bombardment then obviously it has to stop - whosoever fault it may be. Hayley tried to do that by closing the other thread so that a serious discussion could start here. It didn't work cos everyone just kicked off again. Can we do it now instead?

In short, I shall ask you to stop beating yourselves up about a disagreement that doesn't even exist. It has already been agreed that you want a vanilla/ non-vanilla split and obviously we go along with that so what the hell are you all getting at us for? On second thoughts, don't answer that...for once don't leap to the keyboard to prolong a debate that isn't being debated any more. Draw a line and get on with the business of what you want to happen in the future and we shall try and refrain from making funny comments about those who clearly don't like them.

Oh shit, I said I wouldn't do the numbered point thing and I have. Now look what you made me do.

Bill

I appreciate, WE ARE on the same side. Albeit, slightly different approaches maybe. If I mis-counted the jokey comments , then my mistake . . . . however,

Ok at the risk of sounding like I have taken everything above the wrong way, there were certain comments that could have certain inferences taken from them.

Your above post suggests I/we have taken a victim mentality. This is not true and any concepts you feel that have been invented would not have been had the kernal of that concept not been created in the humourous comment. As for any gripe towards me or James, it is an inference that can be taken from an intelligent and reasonable minded person.
I don't suggest for a moment it is anywhere near true, just why else would you keep the jokes coming ? Thank you for clearing that up though. All sorted on that score now, cool.

Finally, I actually agree, there is no debate . If only someone would actually get round to organising the ALTERNATIVE meet then we can really stop this crap.

Leon has already offered as have you Bill. Let's do it !

easy_as_

[Richard]

Would it be possible to delete this entire thread and let us all calm down and talk about SPLOSHING?!

Richard