Ashamed of being a WAMmer?

[piemeplease]

Well, interesting to read as peoples comments are, I'm still crippled by shyness and nerves and being told to just be relaxed and happy about who I am doesn't make it any easier.

Rather than biting the proverbial bullet, its just taking me a long time and I'm having to take baby steps out in to the sunlight.

[BillShipton]

What would help, do you think PMP?

[wamram]

Even though i have had my photos on the forum must admit i am still shy about my fetish and would"nt go out in the street and shout about it.

Don"t get me wrong i don"t mind talking about Sploshing/getting messy with fellow Sploshers who know what its like to Splosh but still fear the reaction if i came "out of the closet" so to speak from family and friends who don"t understand its just a fun and nothing dark and devious and i"am not a pervert or a dirty old man (at 33 ) just doing something i like.

So i will be keeping it secret from people.

Regards,

wamram

[piemeplease]

What would help, do you think PMP?

I'm not entirely sure to be honest at the moment Bill.

I of course have grown to very much enjoy this forum and I've had the pleasure of getting to know one or two of the regulars here in an online capacity.

I hope that at some point I might do something over messenger on webcam or something like that. I think that may be a good starting point. Once I've got comfortable with that, I hope I can do a session and then perhaps go from there. Really I think for me it would be easier to take things in steps rather than book a session with someone straight away and then spend so much time being a bit scared that I don't enjoy as much as I might.

I will get there for sure, its just going to take a little while.

[DecadentDoll]

There's so many points to address here. I think I'll just go with what I think, and not reference everyone who's posted.


I was, and am still, in certain situations, a shy girl.

Sploshing helped me overcome shyness in other areas of my life. When I first started sharing myself online, I was shit scared of anyone finding out. When person by person slowly discovered it or gossiped to one another, i took to the stage with it, i told them all.

My mum can't serve dessert without asking me if i want to sit in it. My sister threw a bit of her birthday cake at me at her party. It's now just accepted as one of those things our daughter/friend/ little sister does.


I, like Hayley and Bill am open about it without showing off.

I've just done a full week in college and a lot of my class (those who bothered to ask) now know, and some have been curious, some have smiled, NOBODY has stopped talking to me.

A lot of them see how it ties in with the course, as some of it is just slapstick performance. They also said they'd love to take a pie to the face.



If you want, Phantom, I'll give you my real name and place of work, even the name of my parish priest

Sometimes I just want to keep it to myself, and stop posting pictures. Everyone is getting WAY too serious.

I wish I was at the meet tonight. I've got some thigh high PVC boots bursting to go out and play.

But, i'm off to headbang with my lovely metal friends, and hope that they chuck late night burger king milkshake all over me on the way home

DD x x x

[driversoft]

Nice to have started an interesting debate - thanks for all the contributions particularly Miss Helen et al - I think there's no doubt that its much better not to be shy about our likes, and the way to encourage that is to show newcomers that we're not.

Oh, and Phantom - my family do know of my interests (work aren't interested - and why should they be?), and you CAN see a picture of me - since I use the same name everywhere, you can see my profile on the UMD, also as driversoft. Slightly unusual picture granted but definitely me!

[Phantom]

Hi Driversoft

I don't really want your private information - or DDoll's.

I was just trying to point out the hypocrisy of saying 'what's the big deal? why's everyone so ashamed? what have you got to hide?'

...whilst posting using a pseudonym.

Anyway - it certainly is an interesting debate.

I agree with you that we shouldn't be ashamed. I don't think we are perverts or deviants ... but unfortunately quite a lot of the so-called-normal people would view us that way.

I choose to keep my fetish lowkey because I work with children and teenagers. I'm not sure the parents of those children would be keen to hear about my wam activities.

I know the same is true for my good friend, Liberatorwam, on UMD. He once told me (by PM) he'd like to attend a London meet, but he has to keep a low profile because of the job he does.

I also think Squirtuk made a nice point ... in some ways, it's quite good to have a 'naughty secret'. That adds to the fun a bit.

Phantom

[TottyMcGee]

Hi Driversoft

I don't really want your private information - or DDoll's.

I was just trying to point out the hypocrisy of saying 'what's the big deal? why's everyone so ashamed? what have you got to hide?'

...whilst posting using a pseudonym.

Anyway - it certainly is an interesting debate.

I agree with you that we shouldn't be ashamed. I don't think we are perverts or deviants ... but unfortunately quite a lot of the so-called-normal people would view us that way.

I choose to keep my fetish lowkey because I work with children and teenagers. I'm not sure the parents of those children would be keen to hear about my wam activities.

So do I. And, I happen to know, so does at least one other member of our merry "out and proud" bunch.

Maybe a little clarification is called for here - though at one time I did get carried away with shouting it from the rooftops (a fault, because it's forcing the matter into places where it isn't welcome or relevant) these days I'm content to keep it as what I do to relax, something I don't apologise for but which I don't need to wear 24/7 either. It's not a case of one or the other.
When I'm at work, what i do the rest of the time isn't relevant. In an environment involving kids, adult matters of all kinds, vanilla and otherwise, are left outside - anything less would be a child protection issue. Many of my colleagues and parents are aware of the various things I do in other guises but because they know me as an adult; they also know that I won't bring it to work with me.

Whether this plays into the "hypocrite" tag or not I don't know, but I will admit that having different names and (dare I say) personae for the various roles I have in life does make it easier to seperate out one thing from another, and being in the WAM scene as Miss Helen does happen to make for quite a nifty mask. When I'm teaching I go by my real name, dress in smart pinstripes (though I still wear black - like I say, no-one trusts me when I dress totally conservatively) and do the job I'm paid for. When I'm on business with my band, it's in (male) industrial gear fitting the band image. When I'm on stage in whatever capacity I dress according to my role at the time, though I'm more careful these days to keep at least a semi-detachment to my stage personae in order to be professional - I've learnt the hard way of the dangers of vanishing up your own arse trying to live your gimmick and getting in too deep mentally (if all you're doing is living your fantasy on-stage, what results is a self-indulgent display that isn't entertaining).
When out casually I wear pretty much what I feel like, from whatever shopping source - like I say, I do like to mix things up.

And when I come here, I'm Miss Helen. It's not the world's most inpenetrable disguise, anyone so inclined could make the neccesary connections or even recognise me outright, but then the disguise thing is more of a side effect - the main reason I'm in this personae is because this is what I do for fun. I'm not precious about it; I show up to munches as myself and have no problem talking about adult matters in an adult environment (ie a bar, which is where these meets take place) - if there are kids about, I take every care possible to not involve them.

I've never known of anything good to come from making excuses, in any facet of life. A little compromise will get you much further.

[andy250]

It is a big step to be honest with yourself about who you are and what you do. Like I say I am lucky like Miss Helen and some other people I have met, I dont feel I have to shout from the rooftops. I do know people like the end results of the projects I work on they have told me.

As for taking baby steps thats completley cool, we all have to start somewhere and you should be proud of yourself for being able to state that.

As for Driversoft I met him last night, top guy, even brought some mud shampoo for us to use in our next messy shoot. Really chatty person, caught me out with a good card trick. Got the beers and is open about who is and what he does. p.s. Driversoft, you need to get a fleece with your name on it, now that would look cool.

regards

Andy

[Lizzie_Claymore]

I'm delighted to see the interesting and erudite arguments being put forward in this thread. If only all threads on all fora could be like this without degenerating into a slanging match!

I suspect it might have been my recent announcement about the Warrington meet that included a section on this issue (to try to get people to at least think about it beforehand) that may have caused driversoft's post.

I have to say that, on the whole, I'm with Phantom on this one and for pretty much the same reasons. I'm in the education sector in a position of some responsibility and authority. However, it seems to me that the thread has identified an interesting development which demonstrates that we may, to some extent, be talking at crossed purposes in some cases.

The initial premise suggested that 'we should all be completely open'. However, as Phantom explained and Miss Helen expanded, even those, like myself, who have no wish to 'go public' are often happy to chat freely about sploshing with other sploshers. That doesn't mean that we want to spread it around in other areas of our lives, as Miss Helen has also explained. Thus, I wonder whether we're confusing being 'generally' shy with needing to keep our fetishes 'within' the relevant fetish community, where we can be as open as we like. Notice, for example, that I'm one who is actively trying to get people together but I don't want what I consider to be my private affairs making public in the 'wrong' arena.

On the internet, that's easy - pseudonyms abound - but in a public place, it's much harder. Someone said that the meetings 'are happening in a city centre where nobody knows you'. That's true if you happen not to be known by hundreds of people in a city centre, as I am! In fact, it astonishes me how I manage to bump into people who know me (especially over many years as people I've taught go out into the world but still remember me, for some reason! ). I've even bumped into people I know when up in Scotland!

So, to many people, a meeting in a public place (e.g. a town centre pub) cannot be completely open but there's nothing to stop us attending and talking to each other about it openly but quietly to each other. This is what Wamadeus and I did quite happily at the last north-west meet a couple of years ago. We didn't shout about it or draw attention to ourselves in the same way that you wouldn't shout about your sex life in a pub. - it's private and nobody else's business.

I suppose what we're talking about is, to a small extent, what gay people had to go through about 40 years ago. Remember, then, it was illegal to be gay and men were arrested for it. Even 20 years later, the discovery that a politician or celebrity was gay caused the 'red-top' tabloids to splash all sorts of private information across their front pages. These things take time to change. Anyone who 'sticks out' above the line that society labels 'normal' will become a target, in some cases of quite unpleasant vilification, until society moves on and starts to incorporate those differences within its own basis of normality. This often takes several generations. Even now, it is the older population that has not been able to change its views on so many aspects like that and they probably never will. In the meantime, there will be those pioneers who are happy to be ahead of that line of normality (for which we should all be grateful) but most of us do not have the spirit, verve, will and sheer determination to put up with having to be seen as 'different' by the majority - it's bloody hard work!

A lot of this is down to circumstances. Everyone is different. Everyone has a different embarrassment threshold. Everyone has different family and work circumstances. I think we have to respect and accommodate those differences wherever possible. Many of the people I know, for example, simply wouldn't understand about crossdressing or sploshing. Many of them are a very conservative lot but that doesn't mean that I don't like them in other respects (and can't help being related to some of them). I, too, haven't got into the marriage thing (though that's more because I'm crap at finding a g/f! ) but I'd love to find a g/f for some intimate mutual sploshing one day.

A small handful of my dearest friends, who are very open-minded, do know and have even seen me cross-dressed (even that was really scary the first time!) but that's about as far as I'd want it to go. They also understand the problem that society could shout 'scandal' quite unjustifiably but with potentially devastating effect. They're happy to keep it fairly quiet too because they realise that to 'out' someone either accidentally or deliberately does not necessarily help that person, even if it helps the cause as a whole. The person has to be ready and willing. Any other attitude could be, in reality, a little selfish for it takes account of one person's feelings without considering the full impact on the other person and I hope that none of us would want to be viewed that way.

So I'm with the view that says we can be free and open to talk on here or even in a pub meet but that we should acknowledge that there will be those who wouldn't come near us in a month of Sundays if they thought we might not be discreet so anywhere that someone can be identified in public needs that level of discretion. If we're ever going to coax many closet sploshers out of the woodwork, this is the only way that'll work.

Anyway - this is far too long. I'm going to make some dinner!

[DecadentDoll]

As long as I can dress how I want , when I want, then everyone is entitled to their own opinion and thresholds of embarrasment.

Really thats the only issue i've had. I'm not ashamed, and I won't make everyone elses private business public, but I won't be afraid to be open myself.

[messymercedes]

My views entirely DD. Yes i was very upset and annoyed about the suggestion i tone down my clothing for a meet. Most, if not all the people who have added to the various threads about this issue and others saw the pics posted of the dress in question both on this forum and the other.

I gave my reply to this, but i want to emphasise to me and loads of my friends this is normal wear when we go clubbing etc, I have been in local pubs dressed exactly the same before going to the clubs and no-one has asked any of us to leave or kept their distance from us.

As has been stated throughout this thread different people have different embarressment levels lol I dont think i can remember the last time i got embarressed over anything but thats me and i appreciate other peoples feeling. I dont go shouting to everyone what i love doing, there are i admit a lot more of my friends who know now than before and some of them have even joined in as u know and others are going to give it a try, most of my family know and my nan bless her wants to watch me do a shoot,They all think its funny. at the end of the day though i stick with what DD says nobody tells me what to wear or when i can wear it, Sorry if this upsets people but thats me and until people accept me as this i will not attend any further meets.

[Phantom]

Hi Mercedes

I know that most people who met you in red pvc or saw your pics responded with comments like 'wow - sexy! Awesome!' ... including me. My eyes nearly popped out when I saw the pics! You really did look incredible.

I don't think anyone for one minute was trying to challenge your rights (or Bobby's rights) to express yourself as an individual the way you choose. Anyone who tells anyone else how they should or shouldn't dress is out of order.

It was always 'ask' and not 'tell' ... and it was only 'ask' in a sense of 'spare a thought for those timid lurkers who might - just might - be thinking of finally overcoming their shyness and taking that big step to finally meeting like-minded people and talking about their fetish.

With time and sensitivity, a feeling of trust could grow for those unfortunate people who suffer shyness. Eventually they might grow in confidence and they could eventually feel totally comfortable - no matter who wore what.

To me, it seemed a shame that so many people were taking the attitude of "fuck them. If they're such pussies they can't handle a pvc dress and a transvestite then let them bloody well stay at home."

I agree with Driversoft - NOBODY should feel ashamed or embarassed of this fetish. Unfortunately, some people do feel that way. Some feel like they are a freak and a pervert. Shoving them forcefully into the limelight isn't the best way to solve their problem. Offering them a chance to meet others discreetly is the way to go IMHO. I think that was the idea of Easy As and the other organisers ... just respectfully asking people to spare a thought for those who AREN'T brimming with confidence.

Anyway - I hope you haven't closed the door totally on the idea of future meets. People I've spoken to by PM and email said you were a really good laugh and down to earth. Hopefully, when all the dust settles, you'll consider giving the meets one last chance.

Cheers

Phantom


.

[Richard]

Hear hear.

(though I did go a bit far in the other direction at one point when it became a trainspotting-like obsession which my friends got sick of hearing about).

Oh dear!

Now I have to confess that I'm a trainspotter as well as being a splosher and a nudist .

Is there no end to the shame?

[Lizzie_Claymore]

I've never been into trainspotting in the 'standing on the end of platforms collecting numbers' type of thing. However, I'm keen on photography, architecture, history, geography and engineering design so railways (and other forms of transport) offer all sorts of fascinating diversions. Nonetheless, if you had a choice between having teenagers being trainspotters or (so-called) 'joy'-riders who often end up killing people through their wrecklessness and causing damage to the properties of others, I'd much rather we had the trainspotters!


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